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Can a company refuse to give me evidence for a disciplinary hearing?

(13 Posts)
Pollyhops Sat 09-Feb-19 21:46:32

Suspension due to false allegations of bullying.

A member of the team put in a grievance and this was followed up by a statement from another employee (her friend) stating similar lies.

In truth both women failed in their conduct and was performance managed.

Evidence that has been asked for is both ladies work files which show records of meeting, verbal warnings and final written warnings. The company have refused to give me the evidence because the ladies have refused to give their consent. This evidence is needed to prove the girls had a motive to lie.

This happened very late Friday and I’m unable to contact union rep until Monday morning.

I’ve suspected that they would want to dismiss as company transferred over on a tupe agreement and they have been making things difficult since.

Boobiliboobiliboo Sat 09-Feb-19 21:48:28

You aren’t entitled to that information. If you allege they had a motive the company can investigate that, but you can’t be given that information.

cloudtree Sat 09-Feb-19 21:54:15

They can’t provide you with data relating to others. You’re not entitled to it. You can suggest that the investigator looks at it if it is directly relevant and not just circumstantial. How long have you worked there. If less than two years then they don’t need to worry about following a fair procedure anyway.

Pollyhops Sat 09-Feb-19 22:04:43

Worked for them for 9 months, but covered by a TUPE and worked for the previous company for 15 years.

The details in their file I am aware of as I followed procedure and gave them their warnings.

If this is what I believe, and the company are trying to get rid of the higher earners who came in under the TUPE (two have been forced out already, both didn’t have the inclination to fight so left before they were dismissed) then I know they won’t investigate properly.

HR department are useless.

Pollyhops Sat 09-Feb-19 22:06:07

Oh and investigator is friends with the lady who put in a grievance.

Pollyhops Sat 09-Feb-19 22:08:15

I would just look for another job, but I have a medical issue where I will highly probably require surgery in the next few years. I have a very good sickness benefit which would mean I was paid full salary for the duration of my long recovery.

daisychain01 Sun 10-Feb-19 07:21:21

Put in writing your own account of how the performance management was conducted, ie meetings that took place, emails, correspondence, timelines etc, the circumstances of their behaviour that triggered the performance process and adherence to the company's policy on disciplinary and performance management.

Not seeing the 2 employees' files shouldn't stop you from fighting back with your own robust set of facts and data. Make it clear you wont take it lying down - if they dismiss you then you have your documented evidence in place to threaten them with Tribunal. It's good you have Union membership, your rep can support you in building your evidence.

If the heat turns up, use your union membership to gain access to legal advice and representation.

daisychain01 Sun 10-Feb-19 07:29:49

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions in your evidence along the lines of "they have a motive to lie". That's pure conjecture on your part, as far as the investigation is concerned.

Stick 100% to your verifiable facts, as to what led you to make the decision to performance management, what they behaviour was, what was the context of their behaviour. Show your decision-making process.

If you need to rely on their files to build your case, you could lose ground in terms of the robustness of your defence. In a sense, what you should be saying is "I don't care what they've said, this is my side of the matter, judge me based on my sound actions". Whatever they've said "well, they would say that, wouldn't they ...."

youarenotkiddingme Sun 10-Feb-19 07:38:56

I've been through tribunal before. Not employment related but process is similar.

I knew other parties were emailing lies to each other previous to hearing and agreeing their own story. Knowing details of case I could work out what angle they would play on.
So I just made sure my evidence was robust. Evidence of what I was saying, reports and a chronological diary I wrote of date (or approx timescale), what happened, why it happened and how I followed it up and why.

So despite 3 people all singing from the same hymn book they were cross interviewed and the truth outed.

Best advice I can give it do not deviate from your agenda. You just repeatedly give facts about why your conduct was acceptable and following company policy. You don't have to suggest motivations etc for their behaviour and it can muddy the waters and also make it seem like you do have a grudge.

Pollyhops Sun 10-Feb-19 16:44:41

Thanks.

I’ve requested a subject access request. I received a lot of paperwork, but lots of items missing. I’ve requested all emails relating to me. What I have received is my holiday emails and other tame emails. Nothing was received in relation to these women and investigating manager and when I queried this I was told they can’t send them as they did not gain consent from the other parties. If they had nothing to hide then why not send those emails. That is something I will ask my union rep tomorrow whether they have to comply and send them.

Thanks for advice. I’m trying to remain calm.

Boobiliboobiliboo Sun 10-Feb-19 17:02:18

Nothing was received in relation to these women and investigating manager and when I queried this I was told they can’t send them as they did not gain consent from the other parties. If they had nothing to hide then why not send those emails.

They can’t send you them under data protection laws.

If they did send them, and I’ve done this, every single word would be blacked out.

daisychain01 Sun 10-Feb-19 20:45:48

Nothing was received in relation to these women and investigating manager and when I queried this I was told they can’t send them as they did not gain consent from the other parties

They've told you they can't send you any information in relation to this case, whether about you or not.

Bear in mind, you have no way of knowing if any of the correspondence between the women and the investigating manager referred to you directly. The fact is they may have been emails of a purely admin/process related nature, with nothing specific to the actual case itself.

If the emails contained responses to an initial questionnaire from the investigator, then those exchanges are absolutely out of bounds to you. They contain highly sensitive and confidential information within the bounds of the investigatory process. It could adversely skew the whole basis of the case if you get a preview of things they've said about you or about the disciplinary process.

Difficult though it is, you need to believe in the disciplinary process you adhered to, and have confidence you undertook the process appropriately according to the guidelines you presumably acquired from HR. Lots of assumptions here, but I'm assuming you do believe you did the right thing at the time, if you have any doubts, then it's even more important you work closely with your union rep, and potentially a legal representative.

Pollyhops Sun 10-Feb-19 21:17:08

Yes I know I followed procedure. Just doesn’t sit right with me the way the company have behaved towards my ex colleagues and are handling this case.

Senior manager told ex colleague to discipline a staff member over a minor issue which they did. They then turned it around on ex colleague and suspended her for bullying. Ex colleague quit as she couldn’t prove that the verbal instruction had taken place and didn’t want to risk having a dismissal on her record.

They asked me to do a similar thing a few months before, but I refused because it didn’t follow policy.

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