NHS starting salary

(16 Posts)
Arkengarthdale Sun 11-Nov-18 12:08:23

Advice please. I used to be a NHS Band 4 administrator then left the NHS to work in the local university as an Executive PA supporting healthcare research at Band 5 equivalent (medical knowledge very useful). That job came to an end and I am looking at returning to the NHS as an Exec PA.

It appears they have now downbanded Executive PAs from Band 5 to Band 4 - does anyone know if there is any mechanism for discretionary payments above the top of the band (ie into Band 5 territory)? Or how to guarantee securing the top of Band 4 as a starting salary?

When I left the NHS I was halfway up Band 4 but the university started me at the top of Band 5 so there is significant gap between those two salaries. University salary scales are also a national scale, not exactly the same as NHS but broadly similar.

Any advice most welcome! Thanks

OP’s posts: |
Redken24 Sun 11-Nov-18 12:12:21

I always thought that the banding was for continuous years service etc - probably depend on the trust

Arkengarthdale Sun 11-Nov-18 12:19:28

Does experience gained elsewhere count? Bearing in mind this is admin support, not hands on healthcare. Or can you only start at the bottom of the band?

OP’s posts: |
Gbarmy Sun 11-Nov-18 12:28:10

If the job is afc b4, you've got zero chance of negotiating a b5 salary. You would start on the bottom of a 4 and work your way up with continuous service. Although there are now fewer increments and you reach the top of the band in (I think) 3 years instead of 5/6.

Madwomanuptheroad Sun 11-Nov-18 12:32:02

You should be able to negotiate that your previous service in nhs is taken into account when determining where on band 4 you start.
Service anywhere else is not taken into account.

TheProvincialLady Sun 11-Nov-18 12:36:57

Service elsewhere CAN be taken into account. Guidance suggests that each year of service in an equivalent role can be equal to a year in the NHS. And you can negotiate to start at the top/higher end of he band. However, there is reluctance to start high in the band because a) money/budgets and b) it is seen as less motivating for staff to not have far to progress, money wise, when they start.

If I were you I would be looking at Band 5 roles or at least looking for a B4 that would give you the experience to quickly move on to a B4.

Arkengarthdale Sun 11-Nov-18 12:51:50

Great stuff thanks. There are NO band 5 admin roles in my county any more. NHS Employers website still say PAs are band 5 although they are obviously not.

The emphasis seems to be on time served in the NHS ,not experience in role. I've been a PA for 15 years. As I say, it's not healthcare, it's a support role. Thanks for input!

OP’s posts: |
TheProvincialLady Sun 11-Nov-18 12:59:39

Are you sure you’re looking at your skills and not just seeing job titles? With your experience you could be looking at project support, coordinator roles, bookings manager, etc.

Arkengarthdale Sun 11-Nov-18 14:40:51

When I search the NHS jobs website I narrow the search down to bands 4, 5 and 6 and 'other'. Most jobs are Band 2 and 3 admin and band 5 nursing or AHP. I don't bother looking at band 7 or above.

OP’s posts: |
Arkengarthdale Sun 11-Nov-18 14:43:07

The NHS is the biggest employer by far in my (rural) area so I guess they can pick and choose. I started as a band 4 medical secretary 7 years ago but all med secs now are no more than band 3.

OP’s posts: |
TheProvincialLady Sun 11-Nov-18 20:23:06

Bah that’s frustrating. There are loads of nhs jobs in my area and I was lucky to be able to move up quite quickly. Good luck finding something and negotiating a reasonable salary.

PookieDo Mon 12-Nov-18 17:21:13

If it’s advertised at B4 that will be what they have deemed the job description to be against AFC. I have never seen any one ever change a grade just because they were previously paid more - you will obviously be given Incremental Credit to the top of a B4. Overall a long shot - the job isn’t seen as B5 level. I don’t agree to be honest (with it being B4) but all you can do is ask.

swingofthings Mon 12-Nov-18 17:21:25

How long did you leave the NHS? There is nothing to that regards in AFC so it's up to local Trusts. Most will have their own policy to that regard. Some will consider experience gained in a health or social care role, some will consider taking on at the last pay point but will depend on time outside of the NHS (usually under 12 months). Either way, nothing lost negotiating to be at least where you were before.

Arkengarthdale Mon 12-Nov-18 19:36:55

Thanks for all your answers. There are two parts to this really, firstly that I wondered if it were possible to negotiate to start at the top of the band given that my last salary was quite a bit more than the top of the band. And then a general moan that nhs roles are being downbanded bit by bit - when I started medical secretaries were all band 4, they are now band 3. PAs were all band 5, they are now routinely band 4.

Left NHS two years ago. Don't really want to go back, especially having worked in an environment that really valued its staff, but it is the major employer round here and other opportunities are few.

OP’s posts: |
PookieDo Mon 12-Nov-18 19:49:48

I get where you are coming from

My org has just done a total number on the staff and tried to wipe out band 4’s. It is now impossible to find one, they also downgraded a lot of B3 jobs to AFC band 2 by removing bits from job descriptions. They are keen for admin B5’s in some capacity as then they don’t need to pay clinical managers (at B7) as the B5 will take this slack. Don’t know where you live but many of the larger hospitals use B5 for coordinating clinics. Community trusts will be wiping out admin layers to only have a select few 5’s, a few 3’s and then mostly 2’s. I’ve tried speaking out against it because people have virtually no chance of any career progression

Usually recruiting managers have no say over being able to re-band a post. It’s signed off by HR based on the AFC weighted job description. So whatever is in that B4 will have had all the B5 AFC spec removed. To put you on a 5 would mean an entire new job spec. Which is why it is unlikely to be negotiable. But not impossible

swingofthings Tue 13-Nov-18 05:51:03

It depends what would be involved in the role of PA. If it is mainly organisation of diaries, arranging meetings, talking with colleagues etc... A band 4 is reasonable. If it involves taking and writing minutes of complex meetings, creating agenda, managing g an ad in staff, then it should be a band 5.

I think you should have a good chance to back to your banding but you need to negotiate this with your new boss rather than HR.

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