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Overtime for part timers

(44 Posts)
OldyMouldy Mon 19-Feb-18 22:45:24

Have namechanged for this as worried about outing myself. But just wondering if anyone has experience of this - or any employment lawyers can advise.

Basically I work a 9-5ish office job in a FTSE250 (type of) company. I work three days a week (21 hours) and tend to do 9-5 to fit in with DC childcare but do sometimes choose to or have to flex depending on what comes up. I don't think it's relevant here but in case, performance is above expectations.

Because of a fairly unique project, I have to work two all nighters soon. Our overtime policy states that you're only entitled if you've worked over 35hours. So I've been told that even though everyone else will be getting time and a half, as a part timer I will only be entitled to normal time or TOIL. I find this hugely offensive but my boss isn't fighting it. I don't know what to do.

- It feels like they're saying my time is worth less than others'
- I'm expected to not sleep all night and be in the office but that's worth the same as a normal day.
- I am working over MY time/normal hours so it feels like the overtime policy is set up for full time staff only.

Do I have a leg to stand on? I am scared to join a union and raise it as I fear it would hurt my career. Sadly. But I am so angry. Maybe I shouldn't be. What do you all think?

rookiemere Mon 19-Feb-18 22:50:46

Same policy in my company - feel its unfair but probably legal. I tended to take any out of hours working as TOIL instead with a bit of rounding up.

OldyMouldy Mon 19-Feb-18 22:55:23

Thanks rookie I feared as much hence me asking before getting heavy about it. It sucks.

I tend to struggle to take my holiday entitlement so would rather have the money really. I guess I'll just have to be happy with a normal day's pay.

purpleme12 Mon 19-Feb-18 22:56:53

It's the same in our company too

BackforGood Mon 19-Feb-18 22:57:08

I'm no lawyer, but have worked PT for many years.
I would certainly make a stand about it. It has to be pro-rata if they are expecting staff to work all night but are willing to recompense them with time and a half pay.
If they weren't prepared to treat me equally, then I wouln't be working it.

TyneTeas Mon 19-Feb-18 22:58:04

Last few places I have worked, if a part timer worked overtime on a non- working day during the week, it would be paid at the flat rate, however if at the weekend would be at the same enhanced (time and a bit) rate regardless of the total number of hours worked during the week.

I have also worked places where any week day overtime is paid at a flat rate regardless of number of hours, and where it is flat hours up to the full time equiv hours then an enhanced rate

So I suppose it depends on whether the others are getting an enhanced rate as it is out of standard hours or whether it is because it is over the full time hours.

Brokenbiscuit Mon 19-Feb-18 22:59:37

Same policy where I work, though staff on higher grades can't actually claim overtime at all.

In general, I think it's fair, but in your situation, it seems unreasonable due to the anti-social hours. I presume that your normal working hours are in the daytime, and that it isn't shift work?

NC4Now Mon 19-Feb-18 23:00:09

It’s always been the same for me. You only get overtime once your hours exceed a full week. That’s all the law requires.

Brokenbiscuit Mon 19-Feb-18 23:01:11

So I suppose it depends on whether the others are getting an enhanced rate as it is out of standard hours or whether it is because it is over the full time hours.

Yes, I agree.

IntelligentYetIndecisive Mon 19-Feb-18 23:02:31

NHS here. Same.

Overtime rates are only paid after working full time hours.

I currently work on a zero hours contract at roughly 12 hours a week.

Overtime would only be paid after I worked 37.5 hours. E.g 38 hours.

nerdsville Mon 19-Feb-18 23:02:58

It's fairly standard for overtime to be paid at plain time up to the equivalent of full time hours- the logic being that if overtime was widely available, you could work an extra two days every week and if you were getting time and a half overtime, you'd be getting paid more than someone contracted to full time even though you're both actually working the same hours each week.

That said, your situation is a bit different because A. It's a one off specific project, not an on going thing and B. You'll be working overnight.

My company has the same policy re part timers and overtime during normal working hours, however we also pay all hours worked between 11pm and 6am at time and a half/double, even for part time staff, because we recognise that overnight working is a different kettle of fish (we're financial services so it's pretty infrequent).

You wouldn't be unreasonable to request that they consider offering you an enhanced rate in view of the fact it's a one off circumstance and you'll be working overnight, but they may still say no and choose to abide by their policy. Your option would be to decline to work the overtime.

If you're not already a union member then it is unlikely they would support with an issue that has arisen prior to joining. You should still join though- you may need them in future (big union advocate here).

Justgivemesomepeace Mon 19-Feb-18 23:04:22

Where i work you get single rate until you have worked the 37.5 hrs that the full timers do, any hours after that are overtime rate. I think that's fair. If you got overtime rate for anything over your part time hours you'd be getting more than the full timers for the same number of hours. Everyone would want to work part time and make their money up by doing a few of hours overtime. Everyone is getting exactly the same payments for the same hours. Why should you get more for working the same number of hours as them? I'm part time by the way. Puts me off bothering with overtime but I think it's fair.

Scrumptiousbears Mon 19-Feb-18 23:04:26

Almost the same in my company with the exception of unsociable hours.

FlippingFoal Mon 19-Feb-18 23:05:15

It is the same with the NHS - you don't get overtime if you are working part time. The do offer a 30% enhancement for antisocial hours though (night work)

OldyMouldy Mon 19-Feb-18 23:06:18

I don't work shifts and that isn't the norm for us as a team. So yes, it's the anti-social nature of the hours. If I was working an extra day during the week I would definitely expect normal rate. But I'm working 8pm-8am on a Friday night (and others will be doing same Saturday and Sunday. This was just my slot on the rota).

My understanding is there is no recognition of the fact it's a weekend/overnight. Everyone is getting standard overtime because it exceeds their contracted hours. Or they can choose TOIL.

slowco4ch Mon 19-Feb-18 23:06:31

Do they pay any remuneration for the night hours? If so you should still be entitled to that. As for claiming overtime, if your logic holds true, we'd all go part time and claim the rest as overtime. The difference in your scenario is the overnight aspect, not the extra hours.

NC4Now Mon 19-Feb-18 23:06:40

You may be able to argue for an anti-social hours weighting, with it being overnight, but I’m not sure how that would work. Presumably they’d have to give that to everyone, as you’ll all be working that shift, so you’d get standard time + anti-social allowance, and they’d get time and a half + anti social hours.
I can’t see them going for that.

nerdsville Mon 19-Feb-18 23:09:36

Can you decline the overtime? And have you checked the overtime policy yourself to see if it says anything about night/weekend enhancement or have you just been told this by a manager? Always worth checking the policy!

OldyMouldy Mon 19-Feb-18 23:10:22

Really useful comments, thank you. And I'll stand down from being an entitled brat if this is normal. I should clarify my slot on the rota means I'm working the Friday night shift. Others are doing day or night shifts depending on how it panned out. Not everyone has to do overnight. I think reading this the issue is the anti-social hours not the extra hours and I could try and go for this but unlikely I'd get anywhere.

OldyMouldy Mon 19-Feb-18 23:11:42

Nerds I will check but two separate managers have said same and I trust mine to follow it fairly.

BackforGood Mon 19-Feb-18 23:11:47

But the crucial difference here is that the OP isn't 'picking up a few hours here and there each week', they are being expected to stay and work in the night time, which is not part of their usual contract. The company are recognising that with the FT employees, and enhancing their pay, so they need to enhance the pay of PT employees being asked to do the same.

OldyMouldy Mon 19-Feb-18 23:13:37

I could have declined, yes. But at what cost to my role in the team I don't know. I'm a team player and they're not just colleagues, they're friends. If I'd said no, someone would have had to pick up my slot. That would be even more shit.

BackforGood Mon 19-Feb-18 23:13:43

OK, x-posted there, but even if you can't get it for this time, I think you should formally raise it for the management to look at their policy and ensure it is fair for everyone in the future.

OldyMouldy Mon 19-Feb-18 23:15:34

Agreed Back... flexible working is still a little bit of an unknown in some areas and I've experienced pretty much every bit of stereotypical crap that goes with this but I really felt like we were coming out the other side with it all and things were changing.

BookHelpPlease Mon 19-Feb-18 23:15:57

That is standard in all the places I have worked. I think it is fair. You get paid extra per hour when you work a lot of hours in a week. You will not be working a lot of hours. You will be working pretty much just full time hours I'm guessing.

Also why should you be paid more for hours 22-35 than your colleagues who do this every week.

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