Quick question about demoting employee

[beagleeyed]

Long term Mumsnetter, name changed.

I've recently been demoted but my wage hasn't changed. A member of staff walked out and now I'm doing their job. Reason they gave was to save the wage and they wanted consistency of work rather than having to wait to recruit a new person to fill the position.

I have been with my employers for nearly 18 years. Small company, no HR or union etc. My contract is that old with no info re demotion but company handbook only says demotion if there is a grievance or performance issue etc. Nothing about saving money. The company are doing well. My last appraisal says I was doing a great job.

They gave me no warning and less than 24 hours to move offices and start my new job. I found the whole thing very stressful and upsetting.

Is this lawful? Should they have not at least given me some kind of notice period?

My duties have been handed back to the directors and carved up between colleagues. I was manager. I'm now admin.

I've made my feelings very clear that I don't want to do it but feel I've no option. They don't understand why I'm upset because my wage hasn't changed. All I'm now doing all day is menial admin tasks.

I have googled but can't seem to find an answer about whether they should have given me notice.

[StealthPolarBear]

I assume their plan is you'll leave and they'll then pay the next person muchl less?

[beagleeyed]

Stealth, I've actually given notice. I have a new job. But I feel very very bitter that I've had to leave after all this time....

I just want to be able to say, look what you've done is unlawful. But I don't know if it is....

[Ijustlovefood]

Stealth - sounds about right.

[beagleeyed]

And yes that is the plan. They've already started recruiting for two people but not to do my old job but to do the one I do now.

[beagleeyed]

So they'll get two for the price of one I suspect.

[retirednow]

Sounds like you are better off without them! Employers can be so sneaky but we can all see through it, good luck with your new job. Try to leave it behind you, they are not worth worrying about and if you have made friends with people there then you can always keep in touch.

[flowery]

They possibly acted unlawfully, depending on the terms of your contract and a few other factors.

But as you have a new job there is no gain whatsoever from pursuing it, so move on.

[thatstoast]

Based on what you've said it seems that your old role has been made redundant and they should have followed the processes associated with that. So they haven't had to pay you redundancy which could be thousands based on 18 years service.

[CotswoldStrife]

OP, you haven't actually said what the demotion was - is the post that you were moved in to at a lower grade or not managerial (you say your previous post was and this is admin)? Or is it at the same level but the tasks have changed? There is usually a clause in your contract that the employer can move you if needed.

I sense there is a bit more to it than is on here, but not everyone wants to put details on here that might out them and I think that's pretty sensible!

[beagleeyed]

I was manager of the company but I've been demoted to a basic admin role. The tasks have dramatically changed. It's more of an office junior role.

I did point out to them that if the role was redundant they should have done the right thing and make me redundant rather than demote me, knowing I would leave but they have just dusted over it and have just made me feel I should be glad to have a job.

I just want to find out whether if a company demote you they have to give you notice.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

I'm working my notice at present and they are making me feel very uncomfortable 😣

[beagleeyed]

I'm not intending to pursue it. I just feel very very let down.

[bookgirl1982]

If you're not going to pursue it then just do your best to move on and feel positive about your new role.

If you want to take it further then call ACAS or an employment solicitor about how to take up a failure to follow redundancy procedure and potential constructive dismissal.

[topcat2014]

Sounds like you have a case to sue for constructive dismissal.

[topcat2014]

ie where your duties were changed to such an extent you felt you had no choice but to resign

[beagleeyed]

Yes I'm trying bookgirl but it's hard. I've been there so long, nobody has been there longer. Really I'd like them to pay me in lieu of notice in the circumstances so I can get out now and try and forget about how shit I've been treated but they haven't even offered to do that.

I've know them do this in the past so I have no idea why they haven't offered me this option.

[Firstworlddramas]

If you have a significant change of duties then essentially your previous role was made redundant. It doesn’t matter that they protected your wages, from my understanding it is about the task you are asked to complete, albeit the would be able to argue a ‘reasonable request’, the fact you have completed this other task goes in your favour, I would seriously consider raising a claim, you might not have the fight to go the whole way but do not let them know that. I suspect you would end up with a settlement of some description as it sounds like a good case overall. I certainly wouldn’t feel loyalty to them in any stretch so therefore don’t feel bad about making the claim. That said don’t waste the next five years of your life stuck in negative territory! Best wishes with your new job

[beagleeyed]

Thank you, it does not pay to be loyal...as I have found out to my detriment.

I am looking forward to my new job

[flowery]

If they’re recruiting to replace the OP then it’s not redundancy.

There may be a case for constructive dismissal but as compensation is based on financial loss and the OP has a new job there would be no point pursuing it.

[Thistledew]

flowery - they are not recruiting to replace the OP in her management post, they are recruiting to replace the admin post she was forced into. I second the advice of speaking with an employment solicitor to properly discuss your options.

[StealthPolarBear]

I'd get that last post deleted BTW :)

[StealthPolarBear]

Acnd that one hope I'm making sense :)

[Shopgirl1]

I see this as a redundancy situation.
I would have thought you should have had notice that you were at risk and then consultations about the new alternative role.
Did your actual title change and how was it communicated to you if it did? What did you receive in writing?
The recruitment they are doing is for the unsuitable alternative, not the OPs role.
Have you sought any legal advice? I would in this case as your redundancy entitlement would be significant.

[LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett]

I think you potentially have a case for constructive dismissal, and from what you're saying this was probably done to avoid making you redundant and therefore to avoid paying redundancy.

I'd probably pursue it - if you have 18 years' service it's likely a few thousand quid. It doesn't actually matter if you have a new job, people get new jobs after they've been made redundant! But you've been done out of money that's rightfully yours.