Conflicting holidays at work

[bluebelleblues]

I'm going on a 2 week break abroad with my partner. It's a special holiday for us and we need to take it at this particular time. My job means that I need to avoid taking a specific week off work, so after some consultation with my manager about the work situation 2 weeks were decided on. My boss said he was fine with this. My partner was getting quite stressed (he has bad anxiety) about the faffing around with the holidays and seemed relieved that I'd sorted it out.

I'm a line manager of a relatively new employee. He's on extended probation because of some issues we'd had regarding performance and attitude. He's picked up a bit but there's still a few things that are niggling me. However, my holiday falls just after his new end of probation date. And he's just gone and requested a week's holiday through our system for the same time (see below). So he obviously assumes he's being kept on or hasn't realised the date. I think I'll pass him this time around, even though he's not my ideal person to work with. It's a lot of effort and money to go through the recruitment thing again and have to train someone up (especially working it around the date my holidays fall, bad timing).

We do similar roles and we can't take time off at the same time unless it's a day or two because there's nobody else that could cover, really. And it's a busy place. A while back I'd asked him if he had any other holidays coming up and he'd said no. I'd said I'd be going away with my partner at some point. He's already had 2 weeks off since he joined (during his probation period too) and I've had one week.

I was intending on informing him about my holidays (which are for a couple of month's time) next week. But today I received a holiday request email from him. And it's for the same week as I'm taking off. Typical. My boss has signed off my request now but we've not booked flights yet.

My former boss and I used to always talk about what holidays we were having and it worked out fine. I haven't said anything to the new guy yet about my trip. I was thinking that I'd tell him on Monday past that I was taking this time off but I forgot and so I decided I'd tell him next week. And now he's requested this week off. I just hope he's not booked anything.

So, do you think I should speak to my boss first (I've been discussing employee stuff with him a lot, with me being a new manager) and tell him what's up (I don't think we could get in a temp or anything as they couldn't pick up our systems at short notice) or just approach my employee and tell him I'm afraid I can't grant him that holiday because I'm going away myself? And that he'll have to take another week? I have a feeling he's asked for that week because it's a school holiday, and he has a kid. I imagine he'll be annoyed.

So right now I'm feeling quite crap and a rubbish manager for not mentioning my holiday in the first place (even though he might have said he wanted that time off as well, which would create the same problem). Any ideas?

[AlternativeTentacle]

extend his probation and decline his holiday stating that you are already off that week. if he gets annoyed then observe how he handles it. it might help you make your mind up about him.

[Justmuddlingalong]

He's put in a holiday request. It hasn't been granted. I don't understand what the problem is to be honest. Your time off has been given the green light. His hasn't. Stop panicking.

[Urubu]

Just deny the request and say why.
New employees don't usually get first pick for holidays especially not over their manager!

[tribpot]

So the first point is, keeping a poorly performing employee on just because recruitment is hard is a decision that absolutely will backfire on you. If he's not met his objectives, that's that. Trust me, it's short term pain now or long term pain later.

On the second, I'm not sure what the problem is. He's put a leave request in with no knowledge of your leave. Your leave has already been agreed. So his leave request has to be denied because unfortunately it clashes with yours. There doesn't need to be an elaborate story about why you didn't mention it sooner; he indicated he had no upcoming holiday so why on earth would you have done?

I would discuss with your manager first purely because you are obviously a nervous first time manager, but you need to use incidents like this to build up your confidence. Let's say he was Employee A and there was another Employee B, and it was the two of them who did a job that meant one or other had to be present. Employee B has already booked leave. Then he comes up with his request. Very simple and clear cut - sorry Employee A, B already has that week booked. The end. It's not different just because you are Employee B - esp since there is a gap of weeks, if not months, between your leave request being authorised and his being submitted.

If he's booked stuff before his leave request is authorised, that's his own look out. Frankly a bloke on extended probation requesting leave after the end of his probation is chancing his bloody arm anyway.

[FeckTheMagicDragon]

Time to toughen up. It's a leave request, not a demand. 3 weeks in total before he's passed his probation - has he even accrued that much leave yet? There is not enough cover - as it's school holiday time. He should have checked further in advance. That fact that you are the one with approved leave is neither here nor there. It's hard saying no, but sometimes you have to.

And they say recruite hard, manage easy. If he's not right for the job and you keep him on he will make your life and your job a lot harder and more stressful. Not to mentioned less value for money for the business.

[unfortunateevents]

You're overthinking this. Your holiday has been approved, his hasn't. Decline his request and tell him that you are off at the same time.

Time to toughen up on the management front too. When his probation was extended, was he given specific areas for improvement? Has he improved in those areas? If he really hasn't, then time to part ways. You may not want the relatively short-term pain of recruiting again, but that will be far outweighed by the ongoing, longer-term pain of managing an underperforming employee. Having said that, the issue of his probation coming to an end when you go on holiday is a bit of a red herring. Unless he has been there for two years, he has no greater employment rights after probation, the only difference may be a longer notice period for him.

[daisychain01]

This additional week, on top of the 2 weeks he has already taken, must surely be over his accrued holiday allowance. That alone is enough to reject the holiday notwithstanding the fact he's booked it at a time when you will be on leave.

If he wants to create a good impression during his probationary period he isn't exactly going about it the right way. That said, his line manager being away at a time when the confirmation of his extended probationary period is due isn't ideal either.

This situation seems like it needs to be tightened up from a management perspective.

[Gorgosparta]

Decline his holidays.

Make the decisiosn abiur his probation. Go on holiday.

My work started taking the 'recruitment and training is so expensive, we will pass people'. This was last year and at the begining of a big recruiment drive. It lasted 8 months because there were people in the job who should not have been.

My department was the vest performing. Because ignored the new rule.

[Gorgosparta]

Sorry should say 'rule' as it was never official and i just followed out normal procedure.

[Chottie]

If this person doesn't cut the mustard, do not take them on.
You will save yourself a mort of future problems........

[rwalker]

can't see the problem ,performance wise you have said you are going to pass him so must be ok.As an adult anyone at work understands not everyone can have what time off they want and they have to fit in with everyone else.Reject his request and if he asks tell him you are already off .Basic management u are over thinking

[BritInUS1]

Has he even accrued enough holiday to take another week if he's still in probation and has already had 2 weeks off?

[WipsGlitter]

I had this with a new employee I basically said sorry I've already booked it off. It's tough but it happens. Can he not view your online calendar to check if you've leave booked?

Re the probation if he's not working out think really carefully about keeping him on. Poor attitude at this stage isn't good.

[RiotAndAlarum]

He's not a manager, so there's no reason he would have known it was your already-approved holiday. This is why people "request" holiday from managers who have oversight of the whole diary. There's definitely no reason to un-book your own holiday (as you seem to be hinting!). You're probably feeling guilty for finding him a PITA. Again: don't!

[flumpybear]

There's no problem here just say no as you're away. If he's booked something that's his look out he should have waited til holiday request was confirmed

[bluebelleblues]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your advice! Well, after getting myself in a tizzy about all this and taking over half the morning to bring it up, the conversation went ok.

I didn't say anything to my manager. I was in a meeting with the new guy anyway so when it was just us in the room I told him I would be unable to give him that week off as I've already had a two week holiday approved by my boss for those dates. He was fine about it, said it was just on the off-chance and his ex would be able to ask her partner to look after the kid that week instead. Then I said if he needs another holiday to discuss it with me first before putting through a request in the system.

So it was fine in the end! Note to self: rein in your vivid imagination.

I'll see how he does in the next few weeks before I make a decision on him being kept on. Sometimes he's very helpful and other times he just faffs around, he seems easily distracted.

[AlternativeTentacle]

Have you given him actual targets to meet? Ie timescales on dealing with things, keeping his outlook diary full with the tasks he is carrying out, are you monitoring his work etc?

[tribpot]

Agreed - are you continuing to give him feedback, i.e. sometimes you seem focused and others you seem very easily distracted. So that he knows what he needs to sharpen up if he wants to keep the job.

[bluebelleblues]

I've been so busy I haven't had time to check his work but I'll make an effort to check over it this week and have a discussion.

[LadyLapsang]

For the future, have a system where as soon as leave is approved, people email all the team so people are are aware who will be off. If you will have a lot of people wanting time off at the same time and won't all be able to be away at the same time, have a cut off date for everyone to submit their leave request and then decide.

[2014newme]

Can't see problem just say no sorry I'm off already that week
Why is it a drama?