Calling lawyers/professionals.. soon to be trainee solicitor needs your advice!

[Orelia]

I have a DC who will shortly be starting school. I am a single parent.

I secured a training contract with a large firm through a vac scheme. The training contract commences soon and I need your advice. During my time on the vac scheme (which lead to the offer of a training contract) I did not officially disclose the fact that I had a DC:

i) family talk can be seen as unprofessional and it is irrelevant to my ability to carry out the job. ii) I had cast iron grandparent childcare arranged so that I was able to participate 100% in the scheme to give me the best possible chance. iii) discrimination does exist and I want to be considered as a serious contender.

I did become friendly with some people I met during the vac scheme who I subsequently told, but HR dept etc do not know.

I am unsure of the best way to go about disclosing that I have a DC. As the start date approaches, I am
becoming a bit anxious. Is it unrealistic to hope that there might be some flexibility on doing all nighters/ family friendliness? I will be able to call on grandparent support for working extra late, however they would ideally have notice of this in advance.

My ideal arrangement would be to be able to be able to leave the office at 530/6 and then work on things from home in the evening. Then have it prearranged to work later say 2 days per week? But I realise that this is probably an arrangement suited to individuals that are established in their career.

I know that the role of a trainee is to be on hand whenever willing to do whatever with a cheery smile, and of course I am willing to do that. However, I do have to be realistic with my responsibilities. I don't want to let anybody down: work or DC etc.

I have thought that avoiding corporate seats might be a good idea (which is a shame bc I am very interested in this area) given that the nature of the work demands late nights.

Who should I talk to? HR? Individual seat supervisors? Should I do this before starting or during the initial week/induction meetings? The last thing I want is to seem like I'm shirking responsibility the minute I walk through the door. I can't tell you how delighted and excited I am to have this job and desperately want to handle this as best as possible.

Thank you for reading.

[dinkystinky]

You should disclose it before you start (if nothing else for death in service benefits to go to your child and to include them on private medical if offered). Speak to HR - ask if there are any trainees with families and ask if you can speak to them about how they make it work before you start. I was a trainee with a fellow trainee with kids - her parents and husband took up the slack while she worked full on for 2 years and she then qualified into a department with more regular hours but still regularly pulled long days.

I suspect there will not be very much flex in leaving the office at 5.30/6 as a trainee as you're expected to get the job done before leaving - this is the case in every single department. Its not just corporate that works beyond 6 every day. Some departments (eg. property, pensions) are more regular hours but even then most of the people that work in them work from 8.50/9 till around 7ish and can pull longer hours on corporate support roles. However some firms are better than others at agile working so you will find out when you are there how it could work.

[dinkystinky]

And good luck with your contract - if you really really want it and really really want to make it, I'm sure you will qualify and have an excellent legal career ahead of you. Line up your parents to help out as much as they are willing and have a back up plan for school holidays/times they are away. It is possible to be a city lawyer and a parent (I am one, with a husband who works long hours and family nowhere near by so I have an awesome nanny that most of my salary goes on) - but it really is a juggling act and you need a lot of support to do it without it all becoming too much.

[burninghigh]

I'm a corporate lawyer in a large firm. I have 4 children all under 9. I would have no sympathy for you wanting to leave at 5.30 every day. Get real. A training contract isn't an extension of uni.

If you are in a decent firm work life balance means leaving at around 7 (that's early) and even then many take work home. I wouldn't know about high street firms but imagine that's where you need to be if you want regular hours.

Trainee work is often not capable of being done at home.

Of course, you could coast along for your 2 years. You won't get offered a job on qualification though. But I guess you will get one somewhere else by which time your child will be older.

It's not fair, it's a pain in the arse and it's the reason droves of women leave the law in their 30's.

[burninghigh]

Dinkystinky I too spend loads of my salary on a nanny!

[burninghigh]

Ps no one will care that you have a child, really don't worry about disclosing it. HR won't even tell anyone as it's just not relevant. It only becomes relevant if you can't be relied upon for your job. Sorry if my previous post sounded harsh. I didn't mean it to.

[Orelia]

Thanks for the responses, this is all useful info.

I wasn't clear enough that I absolutely don't expect sympathy or favours.

It sounds like I definitely need to have arrangements so that i can be on hand until late.

Thinking that living in the same town as parents and having a 2 hour commute may be my only option, affording a nanny on a trainee salary would not possible.

[Orelia]

burninghigh should I wait until I actually start to speak to HR, or contact them prior?

I don't know if it should just be dropped in to conversation or whether it needs to be disclosed more formally iykwim

[RelaxMax]

You need to put your child on your private medical insurance anyway, so should tell HR.

Tbh though....when I started as a trainee we only actually signed our job contracts on our first day. If that's still the case, I wouldn't disclose you have a child until you've signed the contract and started work as unfortunately there is still discrimination and they could always find a spurious reason to withdraw the offer.

You can expect pretty much no sympathy or flexibility on your working hours. Trainees stay until they are finished, and 7pm is a good day.

A lot of trainee work simply cannot be done from home even if you are logged on later.

Sorry not to be more encouraging!

[bluemarble]

Is it a large city firm? If so I agree with the earlier comments, however if it's a large regional firm you may have more flexibility.

I trained with a regional firm (now city based and work v flexibly often leaving the office at 4.30 and working from home in the evenings but am partner level now) and there was a much better 'work/life balance' for trainees, even in corporate you could usually leave by 6ish most days except on completions.

A lot will depend on the seat you get, the team you're in and your seat supervisor. Until you start unfortunately you won't know this and that makes it v difficult to plan childcare requirements.

Personally I try to be understanding of junior assistants/trainees/paralegals who have caring commitments/personal obligations and provided they notify me in advance of specific days they need to leave at a certain time and ensure that their work is prioritised properly and deadlines met then that's fine but there can be urgent/last minute requirements to stay so having good flexible childcare is essential.

Do you know what your first seat will be in?

[Buck3t]

Before I went in-house I worked in a midsized law firm in the West End. Things were not as bad for trainees as they were in a city firm in the 90s. Trainees seemed to leave by 6pm. Everytime I saw it I was shocked.

Of course there are those that stayed late, but some were staying late just to say they stayed late.. Depending on the culture of your firm, it should be fine.

[Orelia]

bluemarble, it's a large regional firm.

I don't know what the first seat will be yet, as I understand it we get to rank the seat options in order of preference. Of course it comes down to the firm's needs ultimately, but perhaps keeping corporate off my list might be wise.

I'm torn because I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to have a taster of certain depts based on my own anxiety about the unknown. I completely agree that a lot will depend on the supervisor, could still end up with a real ball-breaker in employment/PC

[goingagain]

I worked for 14 years in a very large city firm, and qualified in a very transactional finance group which does exclusively cross border deals. I resigned recently, am pregnant with number 4.

Out of curiosity, did you sign anything where you actively denied having a child when asked? E.g. A question re any dependants?

I would not disclose you have a child certainly until you have signed your employment contract and ideally not unless you need to. It is bad but it may give people preconceived ideas.

In my firm there is no way you could leave at 5pm. You need to be available all the time in theory. HOWEVER you just don't know what the firm / supervisors will be like until you get there. Don't say anything until you have to, it will be easier to earn the benefit of the doubt. You might be pleasantly surprised and find sympathetic people - my department was prob the most extreme in the city so my experience is probably not representative.

I do not think a two hour commute is sustainable - or even possible on days you need to work late?

Really best of luck to you x

[Orelia]

Thank you goingagain x

No, I haven't signed or denied anything. However, I was careful not to refer to it at all. It was borderline uncomfortable at times when having answer a lot of questions about personal life etc. Especially on a vac scheme environment, they are really trying to suss you out. However, I took that view that I was entitled not to mention it and I'd probably be out of the race if I did. It felt really competitive.

[Orelia]

Excuse the typos, sent too soon.

goingagain, if you don't mind me asking - how did you manage childcare with your children? Did you also have a nanny?

[2014newme]

But many other people in the team will also have kids and they can't leave at 5.30pm.

Sorry but you are very naive!

[Alanna1]

Could you get an au pair? I think you will need support for drop offs and pick-ups. I'm assuming your children are school-age. I don't think a 2 hour commute works.

[Orelia]

Not sure what's naive about starting a thread inviting feedback? Meow.

Outlining an "ideal" scenario is not the same as stating that that's my expectations..

[Racmactac]

I wouldn't mention it at this stage.

But my story may give you some reassurance. I have always worked 9-5 in family law. Sure i take work home with me but my office hours are 9-5. No one bats an eyelid.

I have young child when I did tc and like you I didn't mention it at interview. I only mentioned it when I had been there a few weeks.

[Alicekeach]

Orelia, I trained in a large regional firm, and trainees regularly went home at 5.30pm and no one batted an eyelid (and most of us got offered jobs on qualification too). Two trainees had children and they made it work. Not all large firms have the dog eat dog mentality that says if you're not at your desk at 7pm you're slacking (although admittedly many do). I suggest you wait till you start and see how things go.

[aliceinwanderland]

It is possible to make it work. I worked with a single mother who managed her traineeship in a city firm. She had good evening care.

Sorry for the long reply!!

I certiny put in the hours when I was a junior the city. I hardly ever left at 5.30. And when I was a partner I remember the look of disbelief on a male colleagues face (post merger) when I told him I left between 5-6 most days once I had dd! I did do it though but I nearly always did 1-2 hours at home and often an hour when I got home.

Depending on the firm though I think you might find the ability to work remotely might help you. There seems to be a move away from the presenteeism culture that some firms used to have, (although not the ones I worked at-there was just a lot to do). If you are really keen and helpful during core hours and make it clear when you will be available remotely you might get a sympathetic hearing. I also think you should be aware of the difference between commercial departments - which can be quite flexible and corporate/finance departments than really are unpredictable and can require a lot of hours. Comm prop can also require long hours but you can generally know when the late nights will be required.

Personally I would chose remote working over a 2 hour commute. That is quickly going to tire you out and cut into the time you have with your child. Do you have to habe a nanny as such? Would a babysitter not be able to cover the late nights?

[yummumto3girls]

Crikey, this thread has shocked me....and they say sex discrimination doesn't exist, some of this supported more by females than males!! OP good luck with your career choice, if you can put up with working in this environment then I take my hat off to you!

[Solasum]

I recently decided against retraining as a solicitor as I couldn't see how I could make a training contract work around childcare. I'd happily have worked for hours after bedtime, but just couldn't see that leaving at 5.30 was ever going to cut it. Really hope you can work it out OP.

[Orelia]

Thanks yummumto3girls

Having to use anonymous internert forums for advice because I'm worried about potential discrimination/career suicide if asking the questions directly to an employer is not ideal.

These considerations aside, I'm willing to do whatever I can to succeed. I am genuinely excited about working for the firm. It's the uncertainty on logistics that keeps me awake worrying.

[aliceinwanderland]

Yeah, the sexism in law is still pretty awful. But to be fair a male single parent would find it just as hard, if not harder. The problem is that law firms have an outdated modus operandi, which is not very compatible with family life unless one is a stay at home parent.

[dinkystinky]

OP - a 2 hour commute will absolutely kill you and mean you rarely see your child and really dont enjoy your training contract. Grandparents for school holidays and an au pair for drop off/pick up and evening childcare/weekend childcare (as a trainee you may be required to do this) may be the way forward. However you structure it, best of luck with your contract.