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been made redundant

(20 Posts)
wheresthel1ght Thu 30-Mar-17 20:42:05

evening all, I have been made redundant today. I have been through the ACAS website and I am fairly sure they have followed protocol although I am adamant that the decision was made and the process was merely a paperwork exercise.

My questions to those in the know are;

1) should they have announced to everyone that redundancies were possible as ACAS doesn't make it clear. it is a small company and I was the only one told they were at risk and no one else was told that redundancies were due. in fact at the regular company briefings we had been led to believe quite the opposite

2) everything has been handled by a HR Assistant and not a manager - not even my line manager has been involved in the meetings. The dismissal today was just her and I. Neither Director (one is one of my line managers) or my line manager were involved or been anywhere near

Have they followed the correct procedure?

Thanks

flowery Fri 31-Mar-17 10:56:15

Sorry to hear that. In answer to your queries

1. No they don't have to tell everyone about your possible redundancy. If no one else was at risk what would be gained by telling everyone else before anything was confirmed? People would worry and gossip, so not telling those who weren't affected beforehand makes sense. You say about 'redundancies' being due but also say you were the only one notified of being at risk. Are you aware of more coming then?

2. Slightly odd, but not incorrect in itself. It's the procedure itself which is important, not the job title of the individual conducting it. If you feel the procedure was defective and the fact that the person doing it wasn't sufficiently senior is the reason for that, and you want to appeal your redundancy, then you could raise that.

Do you feel either of the things you mention would have made a difference in some way? Fundamentally it boils down to the following:

-do you feel it is a genuine redundancy situation?
-were you consulted before a decision was made, which means a meeting and the opportunity to make alternative suggestions, ask queries, raise concerns etc, and the opportunity to be accompanied
-was the selection of you rather than someone else fair, and fairly done?
-have you been given the correct notice and pay?

wheresthel1ght Fri 31-Mar-17 21:28:23

Thanks Flowery - I figured they had followed protocol albeit to pay lip service but the ACAS site states they are supposed to tell everyone that redundancies are possible but it doesn't make clear if it is just those at potential risk or everyone if that makes sense.

Honestly, no I don't think its genuine for a few reasons.
1) They have recently created a role for someone else who was failing at their appointed role - he was on probation at that role and then a job was created and he was moved elsewhere.
2) One of my line managers was giving me extra work to be carried out every week the day before they told me I was at risk. I don't see how day 1 I am being given additional work to alleviate pressure on him and then day 2 they are telling me I am at risk
3) I was made redundant and told to leave there and then so to be honest I have no idea if I have been given notice. I am assuming I will be paid in lieu of notice or told I am on garden leave but am completely in the dark.

flowery Sat 01-Apr-17 07:55:07

How long have you worked there?

daisychain01 Sat 01-Apr-17 09:35:57

It sounds like you haven't been there for the full two years.

Bet you they wouldn't dare treat you like that if you had 2 years' employment rights...

Were there any concerns they may have signaled to you during your role about your performance, or that you may have been aware of from the way they behaved towards you? Just something to be fore-armed about that they may start to play shenanigans and change their story mid-stream to suit their purpose.

Especially if their 'claim' that it's a redundancy isn't backed up with a reasonable paper trail and process. If they told you to leave and did nothing to clarify the basis of redundancy, give you a consultation period etc, confirm final payment etc then it seems like a sham, just window-dressing.

flowery Sat 01-Apr-17 11:00:16

If OP has been there less than two years they wouldn't need to back a 'redundancy' up with paper trails and a process.

daisychain01 Sat 01-Apr-17 13:26:51

Well yes, indeed flowery, that's true.

However, despite what the company is mandated to do by law, it speaks volumes about their culture and the priority of the workforce, when the OP was given the message we don't need you any more by a junior member of staff, coupled with scant formalised lead-up or relevant information about notice / accrued holiday, (which one might expect as a basic principle of decency when you're letting a staff member go). Possibly the "redundancy" message was a less tricky message for the junior HR person to give than making it into a performance/ capability matter.

It doesn't seem very professional, based on the information given so far.

I hope the OP can challenge them to provide full details and not a fob-off. No harm in putting them under pressure, they ought to treat her respectfully.

flowery Sat 01-Apr-17 16:02:01

Yes they should treat her respectfully, of course. But she was mentioning ACAS and asking if her employers have followed 'the correct procedure', by which I assume she meant a lawful one, rather than a procedure some random people on the internet think would be a respectful one.

I don't disagree with you, I'm just always conscious not to give an impression that an employer has done something 'wrong', (as in, something actually challengeable), if they haven't. I wouldn't want the OP (or anyone reading) to launch themselves into challenging a dismissal on the basis of rights they don't actually have.

daisychain01 Sat 01-Apr-17 16:36:23

I probably am somewhat "vocal" at work flowery smile and do challenge certain things within reason.

Yes, I agree there is an important difference to highlight between obligation to uphold law versus being a "good employer", so I respect you being factual in that regard.

I hope the OP will come back and update us on what happened next.

wheresthel1ght Sat 01-Apr-17 21:55:01

Have been there over 2 years & nothing mentioned about my performance or anything so it completely came out of the blue

But as long as they have followed procedure then not much I can do

daisychain01 Sat 01-Apr-17 23:01:08

I was made redundant and told to leave there and then so to be honest I have no idea if I have been given notice. I am assuming I will be paid in lieu of notice or told I am on garden leave but am completely in the dark

Did they sort this out, as I wouldn't feel comfortable with this kind of treatment after you have been there > 2 years.

wheresthel1ght Sun 02-Apr-17 20:21:33

assuming I will receive something in the post tomorrow as nothing so far but I will keep you posted! In the meantime I have an interview later this week which has come a little out of the blue so am hopeful

wheresthel1ght Mon 03-Apr-17 19:27:01

updating for you

letter has arrived today and they have put me on Garden leave although according to a close friend at work they sent an email to the whole company last Friday morning (so well before I knew) telling everyone else ahead of me which I am a bit miffed about! Apparently it was thankful for all my hard work, not that anyone has actually said that directly to me.

daisychain01 Tue 04-Apr-17 05:04:38

That's quite a reasonable outcome if you aren't required to work notice, you can at least start the ball rolling to get your CV out there and attend interviews, set up online searches on job portals etc.

flowery Tue 04-Apr-17 15:08:15

Are you satisfied that it's a genuine redundancy situation OP? What are they saying is happening to the work you do?

wheresthel1ght Tue 04-Apr-17 15:25:08

flowery - they are passing it on to other people in the office. honestly I don't know what to think

daisychain01 Tue 04-Apr-17 17:50:45

Can you create a file including everything that has happened so far (redistributing your work to other people, telling other staff about your redundancy before you etc) and make an appointment with your HR department, ask to see a Manager (not a junior HR person.)

Only an assumption but them sending you on garden leave, do you think that could be a ploy to isolate you from access to HR where you could get information and advice on company policy?

If you have a colleague or a union rep to support you, you could go to HR with all the facts and ask them for a proper explanation not a fob off if you feel it is something you want to pursue.

Or would you rather take the redundancy and go elsewhere?

blargargle Tue 04-Apr-17 18:18:32

A company only has announce that they plan to make redundancies if they plan to make more than 20 people redundant within 90 days. Sorry op I think they've done it all correctly.

wheresthel1ght Tue 04-Apr-17 21:14:42

daisy - my mum is a union rep so she prepped me well for my consultation meeting so all of that was raised.

As Blar says I think they have followed correct procedure - the thing I was unclear on was whether they were meant to tell everyone redundancies were coming or just those (or the one) effected as the ACAS website was unclear on it.

daisychain01 Tue 04-Apr-17 21:43:05

Ah OK, I thought one of your concerns was that you weren't certain if the redundancy was genuinely the case.

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