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if someone takes all their holiday pay early in the year then leaves their job, do they need to pay it back?

(58 Posts)
ssd Sun 04-Sep-16 11:12:34

the person has been there 4 years, no contract or written statement or handbook.

they left work over a disagreement and didnt give any notice

now work is demanding the holiday overpayment back, to be paid in 7 days, the holidays were authorised by manager and paid thru payroll as normal

also last working weeks pay was not paid to the person in lieu of holiday overpayment

is this legal when there is no contract or anything like that in place?

anyname123 Sun 04-Sep-16 11:13:50

I think without a contract it's impossible to say. Too late now, but I do wonder why people take jobs without signing a contract, leaving themselves at the mercy of the management. Good luck OP

Lorelei76 Sun 04-Sep-16 11:15:08

as far as I know, yes.

holiday entitlement will be x days per year, it sort of has to be earned so if you worked there a month, you would be entitled to full year's holiday divided by 12. and that's how it works going forward.

with no contract, i would imagine something like this would be covered by statutory law.

Groovee Sun 04-Sep-16 11:15:51

Yes if you leave before your year is out and you have taken more than holiday leave acrued you will need to pay it back.

insancerre Sun 04-Sep-16 11:16:40

Yes, of course they have to pay it back
Did they not work any time in hand?

Alibobbob Sun 04-Sep-16 11:16:54

Holiday pay/entitlement is accrued through the year. The easiest way to work out your entitlement is to divide the number of annual holidays by weeks and times by the number of weeks worked (or you can do the calculation by months if you prefer!)

TequilaBlockingBird Sun 04-Sep-16 11:17:04

Yes. The holidays will have been authorised on the assumption that the employee will be remaining in employ.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeG0es Sun 04-Sep-16 11:18:27

Yes, some places don't like letting you take it till you've accrued it for this reason.

AnchorDownDeepBreath Sun 04-Sep-16 11:18:45

Yes. Lack of contract is less relevant after four years, as the T&Cs were clearly accepted by continuing to work.

If they took more holiday than they've accrued, the overpaid money can be recovered. It'll usually be taken from the final pay, if it can be.

DropZoneOne Sun 04-Sep-16 11:19:05

If person goes into work each day, gets paid regularly then there is an assumed contract, doesn't need to be in writing.

It's also very usual to accrue holiday over the course of a year, and after 4 years, employee would know start and end of holiday year. So yes, they should be paying back holiday taken but not accrued. Perfectly acceptable for company to deduct monies owed from final salary.

MrsJoeyMaynard Sun 04-Sep-16 11:19:12

Don't know if the lack of contract makes a difference, but in previous places I've worked, if employees had taken more holiday than had been accrued in the proportion of the year before leaving, it's been normal for any holiday overpayment to be taken out of the last salary payment (and also normal for any holiday underpayment to be added to the last salary payment e.g. if they'd accrued more holiday than they'd taken, and weren't able to take the outstanding holiday in the notice period)

WatchingFromTheWings Sun 04-Sep-16 11:20:56

Even where a contract doesn't exist I think the fact they have been there 4 years is enough of a 'contract'. They owe the money so it needs to be paid back. I'm not sure they can get away with withholding the last weeks pay to cover it though. Try CAB?

pinkunicornsarefluffy Sun 04-Sep-16 11:21:03

yes, as others have said, holiday pay is accrued through the year, so if you take too much holiday then you have taken what you are not entitled to, so of course need to pay it back to the employer.

I don't know if not having a contract makes any difference. The best bet would be to ring ACAS for advice.

roomonmybroom Sun 04-Sep-16 11:21:37

Yes, pay for holidays must be paid back if you have not worked enough hours to cover what has been paid out. Holiday time is credited at the start of the year (mine run Sept. to Sept. so it is not always Jan.) if I took all my weeks at the start then left 6 months in, half of my holidays had not been earned, though I had been paid for them, so would expect them to be deducted from my final wage.
There really should have been some form of contract though, even the most basic print out from the web job, but there are statutory laws which will cover everyone.

ssd Sun 04-Sep-16 11:31:32

I've just found this online, can I ask, for those of you who said yes they must pay it back, do you work in HR or know the law on this?

this is from www.gov.uk

"Taking more leave than the entitlement
If a worker has taken more leave than they’re entitled to, their employer must not take money from their final pay unless it’s been agreed beforehand in writing. The rules in this situation should be outlined in the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site."

JennyOnAPlate Sun 04-Sep-16 11:36:10

Yes. It would normally be rescued from your final pay packet I think.

JennyOnAPlate Sun 04-Sep-16 11:36:51

Deducted not rescued! Bloody autocorrect!

Moreisnnogedag Sun 04-Sep-16 11:41:53

Why do ask if you don't believe people's response? If you've read up on it, think you're right, then challenge it.

Balletgirlmum Sun 04-Sep-16 11:42:05

The law states that it can't be deducted from pay without agreement but it is still owed so the employer could take them to the small claims court for it.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks Sun 04-Sep-16 11:42:42

I would say that without a contract, handbook or intranet the company is on dodgy grounds anyway!

My guess is that the information/policy is there, but the ex-employee didn't see it for whatever reason.

PuppyMonkey Sun 04-Sep-16 11:44:34

This was a few years back but I had this situation and the money was taken back. I took three weeks hol in February, left in April. Our holiday year started in January - clearly I hadn't accrued enough holiday in that time to cover the leave I took.

ssd Sun 04-Sep-16 11:45:59

I'm asking as I'll believe peoples responses if they know the actual law concerning this, not just what they think is right moreis

ssd Sun 04-Sep-16 11:47:07

milk, theres no info or policy, I've been in the work over ten years and this is the first time its happened

CathFromCooberPedy Sun 04-Sep-16 11:47:09

Most people think the company can take money but they can't deduct anything from your pay cheque without your consent. So while they can ask and legally they are entitled to do so, they can't take it.

Also, lesson to learn for the company about allowing employees to take all their holidays before they are acrued.

Northernlurker Sun 04-Sep-16 11:47:20

What's legal is you owe them the money op!

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