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(21 Posts)
springiscoming16 Sat 13-Aug-16 23:40:15

A question for whoever can answer.

A 'friend' from Spain has moved to London in May. He has Found a job in a cafe, making sandwiches.
He has never ever signed a contract and he has never received a pay slip. He gets paid cash. However his boss wanted the NIN when he took him on board and also he gave references for my friend, when he was looking for a house to rent, to the estate agency.
The boss told him his salary is 18k per year but we do not know really as my friend cannot work out the tax.

If he was fray ding the system, would have been able to trick the estate agency so easily?

I am quite annoyed as I now fear my 'friend' will apply for benefits.

So, just wanted to know from you if you think this person (the boss) is doing something illegal. It would surprise me as the cafe is in a big shopping centre in south London so quite subject to controls.

springiscoming16 Sun 14-Aug-16 09:38:22


Gotheftosleep Sun 14-Aug-16 09:43:37

Yes he is legally required to provide payslips. Can't comment on the contract as I am a tax person, not an employment lawyer.

Rainbowshine Sun 14-Aug-16 09:46:16

He should have had a Statement of Terms and Conditions within 28 days of starting. Try ACAS as a starting point. Lots of good info on their website.

HermioneWeasley Sun 14-Aug-16 09:47:38

Sounds extremely dodgy . Yes, he is entitled to a statement of written particulars (not a contract) but little in the way to enforce it unfortunately.

FruitCider Sun 14-Aug-16 09:49:52

If he is deemed to be a worker and not an employee his manager does not need to give him a written contract or payslips.

LIZS Sun 14-Aug-16 09:51:10

I'm sure he's entitled to payslips , showing the relevant deductions. He'll struggle to claim in work benefits without, or do you think he won't declare any income. How long has he been working, sometimes payroll takes a while to sort out. Does he have a UK bank account?

springiscoming16 Sun 14-Aug-16 10:04:03

Yes, he has a bank account but he is paid cash.

The boss said that he if he ever needs a payslip for anything "he can give him one for any amount he wants/needs" (he is quite friendly).
Do you think he is paying any national insurance contribution for him?

springiscoming16 Sun 14-Aug-16 10:30:39

He has been working for nearly 4 months now. It is a privately owned cafe so there is not any payroll department

LIZS Sun 14-Aug-16 10:31:31

Possibly not. For tax all he needs to do is deduct the tax free personal allowance and take 20% off the balance, plus ni would be payable although that wouldn't be much. Maybe his contract is 0 hours but equivalent of 18k in which case he'd be paid by hour. How close friends are you, there seems it be an underlying tone of suspicion to your op.

springiscoming16 Sun 14-Aug-16 10:46:41

Well, LIZS.
What annoys me is people that use the system in dodgy ways, either the boss or my friend.
This friend is now for example probably entitled to free school meals as for the government it looks like he does not eat anything.
I told them they should look for q new job as it all sounds dodgy but he said "if I can have advantages like benefits or not paying tax I will stay". That annoys me, yes

springiscoming16 Sun 14-Aug-16 21:58:05

Sorry for the typos!!

flowery Mon 15-Aug-16 08:52:01

Well if he's an employee he's entitled to a written statement of particulars and payslips, so if that's the case then yes the boss is doing something wrong.

But your concern doesn't seem to be for your friend anyway. What makes you think he 'tricked' the estate agency? Tricked them into doing what?

springiscoming16 Mon 15-Aug-16 10:09:33

Sorry, i have realised that in the message above the word "frauding " didn't come out.

What I meant is: when my friend needed the reference about his salary from his boss in order to be able to rent a new flat, the boss just have a reference saying "yep, that's correct...this guy earns this tot" (as I said earlier, he actually said that he could declared even a higher salary if needed).
What shockes me: do they trust an employer in such an easy way?!? It sounds like a very easy way of giving a reference?

I don't know what my feelings are. I think everything sounds completely dodgy..

flowery Mon 15-Aug-16 10:25:30

It will be up to the landlord whether that reference is sufficient or whether they want pay slips. But their priority will be whether or not your friend pays the rent, so as long as he does, what's the problem? Do you not want him to be able to rent somewhere to live? confused

springiscoming16 Mon 15-Aug-16 10:43:41


FruitCider Mon 15-Aug-16 11:13:14

This is a bizarre thread.

Your friend has a cash in hand job with a dodgy manager who is willing to lie about his income for him.

Why are you interfering?

cardboardPeony Mon 15-Aug-16 11:19:43

Why would your friend be getting fsm? Do they have children or are they a child?!

flowery Mon 15-Aug-16 13:11:17

'Definitely' as in you definitely do want him to find somewhere to live? (In which case why the concern that the estate agent has been 'tricked'?)

Or 'definitely' as in you definitely don't want him to be able to rent somewhere?

springiscoming16 Mon 15-Aug-16 14:24:22

I want him to find a place for sure.
But i want to understand for him whether he is in a legal term of employment or whether he should look for a new job where he gets N.i.n.paid

flowery Mon 15-Aug-16 14:29:04

I see. Sounded like you were cross at the thought your 'friend' might get benefits you don't think he is entitled to, rather than being concerned on his behalf.

You've already advised him to look for something else anyway.

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