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Dismissal for gross misconduct(102 Posts)
Hi, my daughter aged 25 - a graduate with a masters started on a graduate training scheme with a big company 5 months ago. A dream job, company car etc. Lots of travel within UK. She got two speeding tickets whilst travelling for work and was offered a speed awareness course in lieu of points. She took the course (unbeknownst to us or her employers) on a working day. When asked to explain her whereabouts later on, she lied and said that she had been working from home. Most of the team do work from home at least one day a week. She was found out in her lie; and dismissed for 'gross misconduct'.
I totally know she was wrong. She does too. But this label of 'gross misconduct' will follow her throughout her life. She has not committed a criminal offence.
Has anyone any advice?
It is a hard lesson but she won't be labelled indefinitely
In future she will take annual leave!
Worth noting if it is a company car they would have found out
She just needs to learn from it and move on
Only one of those tickets would have been cancelled by the corse.
It is gross misconduct. She claimed to be working and wasn't, she was paid a salary for working that day. She will learn a hard lesson but the dismissal whilst harsh is fair.
She was an idiot. It won't affect her for life, that's a bit melodramatic. But she's hopefully learnt a lesson.
Sorry posted too soon , course. Lying to her employer was foolish and effectively fraudulent. These courses do run at weekends or she could have taken annual leave, so her deception was unnecessary.
The poor thing. I can see why she did what she did, though obviously she should have asked for holiday or unpaid leave. Has she seen her reference? Will her manager speak up for her?
It is gross misconduct. She lied about why she wasn't at work instead of taking a day's holiday.
Sorry that seems very harsh but the truth of the matter is that your daughter did commit an act of gross misconduct and was dismissed for it. I really can't see any way around it after the event - she could appeal if she knows of anyone else who has done something similar but was not dismissed.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Dear me what a lesson to learn!! To be honest by 25 she should have known better to even do it let alone lie about it.
Only advice is to be upfront with potential employers at interviews as I assume she would need to use them as a reference.
Sorry, x-posted with lots of others and now it looks like I am piling in.
Why on earth didn't she take annual leave?
What a shame. Harsh, but what was she thinking?!
Well, I bet she can see how silly that was so I'll try not to comment on that. Depending on her career aspirations (big busy type of industry or small niche world where everyone knows everyone) she could try asking the HR dept if they would provide a purely factual reference of dates of employment and role title. They wouldn't be obliged to do it, but you could ask.
In future interviews, I think fairly humble honesty is the only way forward, and as long as truthful, I think you could say something like "My contract was ended because I mis-applied the working from home policy on a single occasion, when I should have asked for a day's annual leave. It was entirely my mistake and I've learned from it."
I realise the dismissal was at least as much about the lie, as the day taken, but I am not sure how to present that. If asked directly, I suppose you say you panicked because the job was so important to you, and hoped to be able to make up the hours without it impacting on the team...
Sorry, back again. I know that she will not get her job back. My worry is that the label will prevent her from ever getting a graduate job again - a common question on application forms is to ask about past dismissals. She has been very foolish ..but should she have to throw away all those years of higher education and resign herself to shelf stacking because of a moment of stupidity....
I really hope somebody can advise here.
When she said she was working from home, did she intend to do the work in the evenings? When people worked from home, what evidence did they have to give? How long was the course?
The dismissal will not follow her beyond her next job, it's not like a DBS check! Her only problem now is getting her next job without references. And getting a company car with a speed awareness course only cancelling out one lot of points, presumably....
You seem to be downplaying what she did - you don't have to commit a criminal offence to be sacked for gross misconduct. But actually speeding is a criminal offence and it is this that will show up on her DBS, if she needs one.
I'm not sure what you want advice on?
Unless how she can get her next job?
She can apply but at 25 she is up against new graduates for places on schemes. It is a shame that one mistake , if that is what it was, was so costly but she needs to think beyond that. It may mean starting from a lower grade and salary though.
Thanks for responding. Of course she now regrets everything. The point is that this will not go away.
I'm really sorry your DD has learnt some lessons the hard way.
Two speeding tickets in 5 months is a lot. There are speed limits for a reason. Getting one speeding ticket while driving a company car on company business can be a serious issue for many employers.
Lying to her employer about working from home when doing something completely different is fraud - because she was being paid. And it was deliberate fraud. Which is a criminal offense.
So she needs to reflect on these and probably grow up a lot. Her behaviour is immature and, in black and white doesn't make her sound very reliable or trustworthy.
Okay, that's all pretty harsh. This isn't the end of the world though. She has fucked up in a pretty major way, but it might be retrievable. She was only there for 5 months, so she could just erase the job from her CV. But there is the risk of word of mouth getting around, and she might have done herself reputational damage. Has she thought about looking in a different line of work, and then moving back into her chosen area after a couple of years, using a reference from her new job?
I think she'll just have to be upfront in her next job and hope someone takes her on.
As pp have said, the course will only be for one of the tickets, the other one will still apply.
It's not good. Quite apart from being dismissed, 5 months in her first job doesn't look good. She needs to negotiate a reference, and ideally get sight of what it will say. I'd be tempted to advise her to take a gap 6 months and volunteer somewhere, preferably abroad, and start again after that.
What industry is she in? If it's law or accountancy, she's unlikely to get another job with a dishonesty (basically theft - claiming money for hours not worked) dismissal.
It will with time. I'm not sure motoring offences would even show on a DBS. Hopefully if she can hold down the next job without incident for a while any further application can focus on that. Depending on her field temping might be worthwhile.
Two tickets in five months would be a lot for many people but if your job involves a lot of driving and there's a lot of pressure on you to do too much work in too little time, which has a knock on effect on the time allocated for getting somewhere, then it's not a lot, really. It goes without saying that people shouldn't speed but I can understand why some people feel under pressure to.
She will need to be honest with future employers and explain what happened but that she regrets it and has learned from it etc. then she can only hope that her skills, education, personality etc convince them that she is the right person for the job despite the dismissal.
Lots of people get sacked for gross misconduct and it doesn't mean their careers are ruined, but it does mean she has to work doubly hard to impress at interview.
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