Question for employers/ managers

[SilverDragonfly1]

Hi,

Some advice would be great here.

You have a new, young employee who was still in the training period but doing very well- been with you for 5 weeks- who has contracted a very bad chest infection. The job is outdoors, with no office option, so sitting at a desk and doing the bare minimum isn't a choice. Employee comes into work to give you a note from doctor (you didn't ask for this) confirming the diagnosis and that he's on antibiotics and just looking at him you know it's genuine.

He's been off since Wednesday of last week and on Monday he lets you know that he hasn't improved much at all and really can't manage to come back yet. You do believe him.

Are you considering letting him go at this point? If so, is there anything he could do that would convince you to give him another few days grace? You have other people doing the same job, so he's not missed except for the money he's not bringing in. Maybe if he brings in another sick note and/ or offers to go without his basic pay this week even though he will hopefully be working at least Thurs and Fri?

My son is in this position right now. He really likes his job and is very worried about losing it, but is still all but bed bound right now. He can drag himself to head office just about, though he'll be in bed for the rest of the day if he does. Advice would be really helpful! You'll prob have guessed from the clues that it's door to door work, but not selling stuff- it's to do with the free insulation etc ppl are entitled to.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Well I wouldn't he's signed off and would get SSP, it would cost me more to recruit someone else than waiting would.
However, I am probably am at the supportive honourable end of the scale as I can't bring myself to pay apprentice wage to my apprentices they all earn above the minimum wage.

[SilverDragonfly1]

He counts as self employed so doesn't get SSP- he is getting a basic training wage for the first 6 weeks, but that is just a courtesy on the director's part. So if he offered to forgo that his absence costs nothing, but they don't get any money from his leads either.

I think the important thing is to try and show he is reliable and committed to the job so it is worth their while to keep him.

You sound like a good boss :)

[Lonecatwithkitten]

So he has just one employer, can he set his own hours and can he substitute someone else to work for him. If it is no to the last two bits it is highly doubtful that he should be self employed in which case I would be thinking about this very hard.

[SilverDragonfly1]

I personally agree with you. I think there are several things that point to him not being really self employed, such as being told to be in at a certain time. He wouldn't be able to send someone else in, as they'd have to have the training he's had. Suppose he might be able to send a fellow employee in but they'd all be working anyway.

But he enjoys it, he does make good money and I don't think he's going to be rocking the boat, especially as he's been through a couple of jobs already where he was let go during probation.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

I have reread your post if your are self employed and don't work you get no money, so if they are still thinking of paying basic they really are playing fast and loose with the term self employed.

[SilverDragonfly1]

They may not be thinking of paying it tbf, but if he offers that might look better. Just have to see what happens! Thanks for your insights.

[FadBook]

He could be deemed as employed. There are certain things that distinguish self employed and employed workers. I've copied and pasted this from the CIPD website (I'm a member) in the FAQ bit of employees / workers / self employed:

---

This question is of crucial importance and yet is very difficult to answer. There is no detailed definition of who is an employee incorporated into the legislation. Accordingly this question has to be decided on a case-by-case basis. Some guidelines for the purpose of determining employment status have now been laid down in various cases over the years. Because employment rights such as unfair dismissal have become much more expensive for employers, more energy has been invested in trying to avoid them, which has generated a lot of cases. The factors which have emerged from those cases are summarised below.

To decide if a particular worker is an employee the first item to consider is control, that is:

^who controls what work is done
who controls where the work is done
what control is exercised over how the work is done
who controls when the work is done
who controls who does the work, particularly with respect to the right to delegate, send a replacement or hire staff to help.
The higher the degree of control then the more likely it is that an employment relationship exists.^

The next key factor to look for is what is known as mutuality of obligation, that is the obligation of the 'employer' to provide work and the worker to do it. This will be indicated by:

^how many engagements the worker performs and whether they are performed mainly for one person or for a number of different people
commitment as evidenced by sick pay, holiday arrangements etc
commitment as evidenced by guarantee of work and guarantee of service.^

[SilverDragonfly1]

Thanks for that. I'm not sure which of those apply. He only works for one company, but could work for others if he wanted to I guess. He doesn't get sick pay etc, but if he makes team leader he will get a basic salary each week, which presumably pushes him further into the employed camp.

He's not going to question it anyway, since he needs the income and likes the work and his boss. "Luckily" it seems that half the staff have this cough thing right now and some have got bronchitis from it, so if the manager wants to let people go over it it'll be a very quiet month for the company!

[SilverDragonfly1]

Thought I should update this! His manager was actually very understanding and he did get paid for the second week off. He's now back at it and has earned a substantial amount since, so it was definitely worth the company's while to keep him :)