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Redundancy - staff arguably being replaced by an apprentice?

(7 Posts)
CraftsonSea Sun 21-Oct-12 11:20:07

Can anyone advise on this at all, would be much appreciated as have mentioned this to my HR but my boss shot it down. Last year am admin at my work went on mat leave. They were part time. An apprentice was brought in to cover their work and also save money, that apprentice got another job and so was replaced by apprentice number two. Admin returns from mat leave and a month later apprentice no.2 gets another job, they have been gone 2 weeks and we have not yet tried to recruit anyone else as they were covering admins work. This week however admin has been told she is being made redundant due to structural change. No more 'admins' in the team but there will be apprentices as they want 'to help young people'. To me this is replacing admins job with someone else which I thought wasn't allowed? Any help would really be appreciated, admin is a mn-er with two small children and I am absolutely gutted for her and want to fight her corner if there's a corner to fight at all!

fridayfreedom Sun 21-Oct-12 11:26:57

so far as I understand she can only be made redundant if her post no longer exists. If they are bringing in other people to do the work then effectively her post still exists.
Would be worth looking on the Acas site (spelling?). or googling it, there is a very good site for info on this, sorry can't rememeber what it is called but I'm sure someone will come along soon with more info.

CraftsonSea Sun 21-Oct-12 13:33:16

That's my understanding of it too but I'm struggling to get this agreed with my employer. If anyone has any further advice or ideas it would be much appreciated.

StillSquiffy Mon 22-Oct-12 10:01:47

Your friend needs to send an email to HR and boss. As if by magic: here's one I prepared earlier on another thread, tweaked for your friend's situation...

Having taken advice, it is my understanding that:-
1) I am not in a genuine redundancy situation, because my role still exists, and you are simply wanting to replace me with other staff (that you have openly admitted you plan to recruit in the near future)
2) Even if the number of headcount needed to be reduced (which it does not) there have been no reasonable steps taken by you to determine a fair selection pool and as such I am being unfairly selected for redundancy
3) Having recently returned from maternity leave, I can only surmise that your actions relate directly to a preference for people who are not mothers of young children.

I will have no hesitation in taking immediate action should you proceed along a path that is not permitted under UK Employment Law legislation, and I will be seeking to understand in more detail the reasoning behind your decision to single just me out for this treatment, which I believe to be a serious level of discrimination against me. Please confirm at the earliest opportunity that you will be withdrawing from your plans with regard to terminate my employment.

Love, X

flowery Mon 22-Oct-12 10:07:32

Does she know you are posting? If she's a MNer can she not post herself?

From what you've posted I would suggest she appeals her redundancy on the basis that it's not a genuine redundancy situation. Redundancy is a situation where the requirement to carry out that kind of work in that location has ceased or diminished. If the work is still there and hasn't ceased or diminished in any way, it's not a genuine redundancy situation.

If the role changes significantly, that could be ceasing or diminishing, but getting the same or very similar role done by someone cheaper isn't genuine redundancy.

EdithWeston Mon 22-Oct-12 10:34:32

Is the organisation in trouble? I ask because if they are needing to make reductions to prune costs, the side effect of keeping this person in this post might mean cuts elsewhere, which might be worse for the whole workforce. That is not a carte blanche to treat an individual wrongly, but is an important bit of the backdrop in establishing why they are acting in this way.

You know about this one post, but are any other affected? She certainly does need to ask for details of the whole restructuring (are all admin staff under notice?). Has there been a new JD for this role, what is the extent of any differences between them, and any others affected? What is the total required reduction, and what are the selection criteria? How many others are being considered? Are there any alternative roles in the organisation coming up that affected staff can apply for - what are they and what is the anticipated strength of the field?

Now, assuming there are no answers to those questions, or unsatisfactory ones, then go for the approaches given above.

If it is however a large organisation in which staff move around as work priorities change, being redeployed within it at her previous level might be the best solution.

CraftsonSea Mon 22-Oct-12 11:28:02

Thanks all, the advice on this really is much appreciated. The person is a MNer but they are a lurker ;) I will tell them about this thread though so that they can read it and make their own decision, I was (pre-ds) her line manager so I feel a certain amount of loyalty to helping her out if I can.
It is part of a structural re-change, my own role is at risk but I can accept that one. There is another male admin who is also at risk, however his role was not previously covered by an apprentice. There is currently one part time job available in the rest of the organisation (several hundred people) which hopefully she would get priority on, but obviously employment won't be guaranteed. My feeling was that there are fair in having a structural rechiange, but not in giving the tasks that she performed to an apprentice as that means the work hasn't ceased or diminished. I guess that means its worth her taking it up properly with HR!

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