Absence record reference?

[Allthesanityinme]

I've heard a few different views on this and wanted to see if any HR experts (or anyone else) could give a definitive answer. Can a potential employer ask your current or previous employer for your absence/sickness record on the reference? Bearing in mind the reference may not be taken until after an interview has taken place and position offered. If they are able to ask for a sickness record, would they be given details of the sickness eg what was wrong, how long, whether you saw a dr or not?

[DannyBoy10]

Employers can and often do ask about a potential employee's absence record in a reference. In my experience this would usually just be the number of days taken.

[RedRosie]

Yes. Not HR but I recruit quite a lot of staff.

The number of days absence over the previous two years is a standard request on the form we send to referees. Just the number of days, not the reason for each absence.

[flowery]

Yes they can ask and can be given the number of days. The reason for absence is sensitive information and as such can't be disclosed.

[Allthesanityinme]

Thanks for the responses. I'm a bit unsure whether or not the absence record could affect someones chance of getting a job. Apparently potential employers cannot not employ someone based on absence record as this could be discrimination. Also if the references isn't taken until after the position is offered, what affect does the absence record have at this point?

[RedRosie]

I will leave that to Flowery as the proper expert.

We take up references before the offer is made, not afterwards. We do take them into account, all else considered.

[flowery]

Asking health questions prior to an offer is very restricted since the Equality Act 2010, see here for what employers can ask and when. Certainly asking for number of days off and using that as a criteria for shortlisting could land an employer in some trouble.

Once an offer is made, it's less restricted although employer do need to be careful not to discriminate, and withdrawing an offer due to the results of a health check would usually be inadvisable, depending on the nature of the job and the nature of the potential employee's condition. Instead the check should be used to establish whether any adjustments are required.

[SauvignonBlanche]

Our standard referance request form asks for numbers of days off in the last 2 years, number of occasions and reasons, if known.
Formal offers are not made until satisfactory references are received and occupational health clearance.

[SauvignonBlanche]

I have withdrawn a provisional offer due to a poor sickness record after consulting HR director.
Would not do illness had been linked to a disability.

[SerialKipper]

Sauvignon what definition of disability did you use? Here's the definition linked to by DirectGov wrt the Equality Act (although this doc was prepared for the preceding Disability Discrimination Act).

Many chronic health conditions fall under the definition of disability. If you felt existing health issues were likely to have a continuing adverse affect on the person's ability to turn up to work, then it's possible that health condition did indeed count as a disability.

There is a flip side to all this "we're withdrawing sickness benefits from anyone who can do work-like activity - they should be employed instead" and that's that someone is required to do the employing. (Alternatively one can be realistic about employers' demands and stop punishing sick/disabled people for being significantly less employable.)

[SerialKipper]

punishing = withdrawing benefits from

[SauvignonBlanche]

Not sure I understand, what other definition could you use other than that described within the DDA?
The individual concerned had a Bradford indicator of over 2000 and none of her absences were linked to a chronic health condition, according to her previous employer.

[SerialKipper]

If her absences were all unrelated to each other and not wrt to a chronic health condition, then presumably you'll be alright. (Is it risky to use previous employer's opinion, tho?)

Bradford scoring is a bit bonkers, BTW, as it doesn't recognise linked absences. So a tryer who struggles in when they can gets a much worse score than someone who sits at home and doesn't bother.

[hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman]

How are injuries at work recorded in this case? I had six weeks off with broken ribs sustained because a floor surface at work was slippery when wet (in a pool area), several people had reported slips and falls before I broke my ribs but it took my fall for them to replace the floor (turns out the incorrect flooring had been laid). Now when I go for interview my six weeks show up which makes me feel like I am being penalised. My sickness record is very low without these six weeks.

[SauvignonBlanche]

Not as big a risk of taking someone with poor attendance onto a permanent contract!
hellhathnofury, a single absence like that is viewed very differently, don't worry.

[Allthesanityinme]

Thanks for all responses, I think the situation is becoming a bit clearer but still quite complicated. My situation is that I have had about 12 days sickness in the last 12 months, which I suppose isn't that bad in itself but most of them have been in the last 6months which my current employer feels is a cause for concern. I'm guessing any potential future employers would ask for absence record over a 12 month or 2 year period rather than 6 months so wouldn't be so concerned? But I know in some situations you can request that potential employers don't take up a reference with your current employer until after a job offer has been made, so I'm wondering if this would avoid the absence issue or not?

[SauvignonBlanche]

We ask for the last 2 years, we would expect one of your references to be your current employer.
12 days in 12 months wouldn't put me off.

[jazzyjay]

Question:

Once you sign the paperwork agreeing to the salary and job title what are the odds that HR could revoke the job offer just a couple days prior to your agreed upon start date? I'm currently waiting for HR to call/email me with info on when and where I am to go for orientation. All this waiting has me wondering if it's possible for HR to contact my current employer and find out my attendance record and if HR doesn't like what they hear that they may be inclined to revoke the job offer. The prospective employer has already contacted my references prior to selecting me for the position.

I'm just a little worried because when I called finding out when can I expect to hear about class/orientation the person who'd be my supervisor mentioned "they just want to make sure people will show up to on time and when they are supposed to." So this has be wondering if HR can contact my current employer about my attendance record.

[Allthebestnamesareused]

If there was a specific reason that meant you had a big chunk off in one go I would probably forewarn the interviewer that if they ask for absence details on reference that mine may seem high but it was a one off for a hysteroctemy/broken leg that required an op/etc

[daisychain01]

jazz so, you've already received your offer of employment and your new employer has confirmed your official start date? If so, and you haven't heard to the contrary, just turn up on your first day. How long before the new job strrts?

If they have second thought, they would have needed to contact you PDQ, because you'll already have handed in your notice and they'd be effectively denying you a job with them, but equally they'd be then preventing you from getting new work, if they haven't told you their changed decision.