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Mank hols and part time workers

(18 Posts)
HolyMolars Wed 07-Sep-11 23:52:37

AIBU? I have worked part time for a firm for 4 years - contract says 20 hours per week which fall on M,T & W. COntract says 20 days off pro rata and "In addition you are entitled to all bank holidays paid". I have also, because they are vwry busy, done a stack of regular overtime to help manage the work ane prevent the loss of a load of clients.

Then a new part timer started and does T, W and Thurs (YOU guesssed it -)she then whined that she did not get bank hols cos she does not work Mondays when most bank hols fall, and after much emailing of HR bods, MY leave allocation was then recalculated so that I lose my paid bank hols and I am incensed, bloody furious, incandescent and effing seething. Or should I just accept this as reasonable? Advice please as seriously hacked orf!

HolyMolars Wed 07-Sep-11 23:59:14

I meant Bank hols (OOPS)

HoHoLaughingMonster Thu 08-Sep-11 00:06:10

You should get your bank holiday entitlement pro rata, so you you work 3/5 of normal hours per week (which I assume you do) you'll be entitled to 3/5 of a bank holiday where it falls on a Monday, and for the other 2/5 of the day you'll have to use your leave hours.

If a bank holiday falls on a Thursday or Friday, you get 3/5 of the bank holiday added to your leave hours to take when you want.

This makes it fair for all part time staff regardless of which days they work. You may find a lot of part time workers prefer not to work mondays for this reason though.

HolyMolars Thu 08-Sep-11 00:13:08

Thank you - i get the way that they try to even out the bank hols to all PT workers but it is the complete change from my previous years that upsets me, and does it mean that my contract means diddlysquat? Or that it can now just be made to mean what they would now like it to mean? ie not what it has meant for the prevous 4 years?

inmysparetime Thu 08-Sep-11 07:21:19

I suspect if you make a thing of it they will just get you to sign a new contract. I work only M&F so all last year's bank holidays really took it out of my AL and I ended up with 2 days of free choice holiday. I assume you had a bit more than that.

HolyMolars Thu 08-Sep-11 08:47:40

I do have a bit more than that! but yours is a really good point as it shows the lack of choice; and it is disspiriting that those who work full time, doing the same job, have their full leave entitlement AND the bank hols on top. So the system makes it "fair" between the part timers but creates tension between the PT and FT employees.

baabaapinksheep Thu 08-Sep-11 09:07:16

Surely if you get 20 days pro rata plus bank holidays, and the new employee I'm assuming gets the statutory 28 days pro rata, then you must be getting about the same time off. But yours just happens to include bank holidays. confused

laracroft2001 Thu 08-Sep-11 09:20:46

if your contract says bank holidays paid that is what you are entitled to. All PT are entitled to time off for BH as well, irregardless of if they normally work a monday. For example I have a couple of girls who work for me Sunday only, and their holiday entitlement is enhanced due to bank holiday allowance x

20wkbaby Thu 08-Sep-11 09:27:11

I work PT on Mon, Tues and Thurs and always get Monday bank holidays off in addition to my 18 days annual leave (30 days pro rata). There has never been an issue for me with any other staff although it may be that no-one has really thought about it and I am not about to bring the subject up!

I personally would be annoyed that my contract was changed with little discussion, particularly as your choice is then restricted. Bank holidays are not spread out particularly evenly throughout the year.

laracroft2001 Thu 08-Sep-11 09:42:37

I don't think they can change your contract without a conversation with you and it has to be by agreement with you. You are legally entitled to whatever your contract was when you signed it at the start of the employment.

do you have a HR dept Holymolars?

Ellypoo Thu 08-Sep-11 13:41:21

Your employer has to offer the same things (such as holidays) to all members of staff, regardless of whether they are full time or part-time.
The only fair way we have found of ensuring that full-time & part-time staff get the same holiday entitlement (irrespective of which days they work) is to pro-rata it as said above.
This is unfortunate if you work Mondays, but you can see why, surely? You get exactly the same amount of paid time off as everyone else, it's just that you get less choice about when you can take it. Maybe you could work different days, or arrange to swap your work days on weeks that bank holidays fall on so that you get more choice in when to take your paid leave.
Really though, see it from the other side - is it really fair for you to have so much extra paid time off, just because of the days that you choose to work?
They should have discussed this with you, but it is a legal requirement for them to offer you the same terms of employment as everyone else, so they aren't likely to change it without upsetting all the other (full-time) members of staff because your equivalent paid leave would be so much higher than everyone elses.

HolyMolars Thu 08-Sep-11 22:12:02

Full timers get their whole allocation PLUS bank hols - that's the point and the lack of choice about when you can take your leave is a big issue in that finally i am nearly out of the school holiday (pay a shedload more for the same holiday cos you has kids trap) but trapped nonetheless because of the BHs. This system may level things between PTers but if the Fters get to amass moe overall holiday (once prorata and that is taken into consideration) it seems a nonsense. thanks for all your advice.
Oh well!

fluffles Thu 08-Sep-11 22:14:55

i'm part-time with pro-ratad bank holidays, but the difference is that i could choose to go in and work a bank hol when everyone else is off and take the time another time of my choosing.

do you have that flexibility?

Tidybush Thu 08-Sep-11 23:01:55

I agree it's not right to have your contract changed with no notice but I don't get why you think the full timers are getting more holiday.

If you forget about bank holidays being separate from your overall entitlement and look at the whole amount it makes perfect sense.

Full time staff who get 4 weeks holiday (20 days based on a 5 day week) plus 8 days bank holiday get a total of 28 days or 5.6 weeks.

A part timer working 3 days a week should get 3/5 of a full timers entitlement. Therefore 28 days x 3/5 = 16.8 days (if you have a generous employer they may round this up to 17 days).

Based on your contract you would be getting your basic holiday of 4 weeks x 3 days = 12 days plus 8 days bank holiday giving you a total amount of 20 days. So on that basis, on a pro rata basis you would be getting more than a full timer.

tablefor3 Wed 21-Sep-11 16:15:50

This is exactly the argument I am gearing up to have with my HR bod.

Is there any bit of statute/case law which someone can point me to which says that paid bank holidays (or benefits generally) need to be offered fairly to FT and PT?

Please? Pretty please?

Another non-Monday worker who is getting shafted on this.

Poogles Wed 21-Sep-11 16:35:50

We offer part timers the choice of pro-rata bank holidays or taking them when they fall meaning Monday workers generally are better off. They still had the cheek to complain that they didn't get a day for the Royal wedding (until we offered to give it to them with the rest pro-rata!).

OP - I would suggest talking to your HR department and suggesting that you should continue taking bank holidays as they fall, whilst accepting that others may want them pro-rata. I would also make some noise about custom & practice. Can't advise on the contract without seeing the wording.

OneOf8 Wed 21-Sep-11 16:44:02

tablefor3 Check out "less favourable treatment of part time workers"

It should be covered somewhere in that.

Its a paper-fair system - everyone is treated equal, but in practise it means although same amount of time off is given, the flexibility of when you can choose to be off is removed if the company dictates offices closures for bank holidays.

tablefor3 Wed 21-Sep-11 17:22:08

OneOf8 thanks for that. Shall have a google...

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