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Uncle has transferred money out of account!

(53 Posts)
BonnesVacances Thu 18-Apr-19 13:43:22

I'm posting this for my DM. My 88yo DGM has dementia and moved into a care home near DM a number of months ago after a fall. She has a little nursing care but her dementia has greatly improved since she's been receiving regular medication and meals. It's not a dementia home.

Before then she lived alone and we all wanted her to move into a home as she couldn't look after herself. But now she's in the care home, DUncle is unhappy at how much it's costing. DU looks after DGM's money and is a named person on her accounts, as per DGM wishes.

Such is the case that now DM and DU have fallen out. He tried to secretly remove DGM from the care home to put her in a cheaper one but was stopped by the care home manager as DGM told her she wanted to stay where she was. There's some kind of order in place now that he's not allowed to even take her out for a coffee.

DGM's solicitor, doctor and care home manager are 100% happy she has capacity to make decisions. DU has requested several assessments claiming that DGM is not of sound mind, but she passes them all.

She has now given DM POA and asked for DU to be taken off the accounts. But they have discovered DU has recently transferred the balances to his wife (my aunt). We're talking six figures as DGM had enough to stay the home for 12 years.

I'm assuming it's not a police matter as he was an account holder, though it is definitely theft as it was DGM's money. I advised DM to speak to Age Concern or similar as I expect this kind of thing happens all the time, but not sure what else can be done?

There have been a few other upsets as he's taken some valuable items from her unoccupied flat, which DM has noted somewhere. And DGM can't remember what's in her Will but DU won't give her it to her, so her solicitor has recommended she draw up a new one. So it all sounds very dodgy.

Any advice/suggestions?

bonzo77 Thu 18-Apr-19 13:47:39

What a sad situation. She is a “Vulnerable Adult” by virtue of her circumstances (living in a care home and with dementia, reliant on others to manage her affairs). This is financial abuse and therefore a safeguarding issue. You could potentially contact Adult Social Servicesin her area to get advice or voice a concern. If there is already something in place preventing your uncle from removing her from her home, there may already be involvement.

NoBaggyPants Thu 18-Apr-19 13:48:47

What is uncle's explanation for moving the money?

If there's an intention to permanently deprive, then it is theft and it is a police matter. Even if he was named on the account and she has capacity, she is still vulnerable and his actions are (depending on his motivations) potentially abusive.

motherofdxughters Thu 18-Apr-19 13:50:58

@NoBaggyPants is correct. I would speak to the police on this matter and ask them to speak to your uncle.

Bringbackthestripes Thu 18-Apr-19 13:52:18

Definately speak to police and the bank. Even with POA he can’t just empty her account into his wife’s.
What a despicable man.

BonnesVacances Thu 18-Apr-19 13:53:08

Yes, am pretty sure Adult SS are involved as they're awaiting a hearing to determine what's in DGM's best interests. Though as her mental capacity has improved since being in the home, I think she's now able to make those decisions herself.

He hasn't given an explanation as he won't communicate with DM. All communication takes place through DGM's solicitor now.

The kind part of me wonders if he thinks he's protecting her interests as he's basing her capacity on how she was before she went into the home, but he does know the outcome of her assessments, so that doesn't figure.

CryptoFascist Thu 18-Apr-19 13:55:50

Hi, this is financial abuse and needs to be reported to the Adult Safeguarding team at your DMs local council as soon as possible.

AnchorDownDeepBreath Thu 18-Apr-19 13:59:32

All communication takes place through DGM's solicitor now.

Has the solicitor raised the missing funds?

As Crypto says, this needs to be reported to the Adult Safeguarding team now, and probably also the police. If you hang around, the money could very well disappear.

BonnesVacances Thu 18-Apr-19 14:02:50

They only just discovered this yesterday with one account and today with another. Both balances zero. angry

MadisonMontgomery Thu 18-Apr-19 14:04:30

I think you need to contact the police and adult safeguarding as a matter of urgency.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 18-Apr-19 14:08:20

Police, it's theft. He has power to act in the best interests of your DHM but this clearly isn't the case.

mummyhaschangedhername Thu 18-Apr-19 14:08:30


KateyKube Thu 18-Apr-19 14:10:19

Call the police. Even if he was named on the account, that’s so he can carry out DGMs wishes with her money. NOT take it for himself. It’s theft, plain and simple. And he’s also stolen items from her flat so that needs to be reported to the police too.

How will DGM pay her care home fees now DU has stolen her money?

pinkpushchairs Thu 18-Apr-19 14:12:49

I'd contact the police too, sounds like he is just worried about his inheritance being spent!

flumpybear Thu 18-Apr-19 14:16:20

Yes, it would be the police for me too - theft is theft either there is a POA in place or not, he's supposed to act agreeably to help her not given permission to rob her every penny!

Cosyjimjamsforautumn Thu 18-Apr-19 14:24:20

Speak to the Police, Age Concern and your solicitors. He's committed theft. I have POA/Deputyship for elderly relatives and I'm surprised that the bank didn't query the money being tranferred to his wife's account. Especially if its a large sum.

UCOinanOCG Thu 18-Apr-19 14:34:50

It sounds very much like theft to me. He has taken the money and given it to his wife basically. I would flag it up with the Adult Safeguarding team or the police.

stucknoue Thu 18-Apr-19 14:36:47

It's financial abuse and social services can go after him for the money because by taking it he's defrauding the tax payer

NWQM Thu 18-Apr-19 14:44:40

How recently did he do the transfer? Can you ask the bank to reverse it?

I'm only a lay expert - sadly as we have had many situations in our family & have learnt the heard way as the saying goes - but the ombudsman would be likely to take a dim view of the bank effectively allowing the account to close without the account holders permission. Emptying it does that. By having additional people in support on the account the bank are acknowledging some degree of your GM needing help.

If the bank can't reverse the transaction I'd be asking the solicitor to write stating the sums owed and asking for either a clear explanation of spend or the money returned asap.

You say you think that he may believe that he is protecting her best interests but it is not in anyway in her best interests to commit fraud. She can not dispose of her income without potential implications for tax and for care home fees.

Alonglongway Thu 18-Apr-19 14:49:34

Sympathy - this sounds awful. Had a bit of this in our family too. My brother helped himself to valuables from our parents house after they moved into care home.

it might be useful to get hold of a set of bank statements to show how the balance has changed over time. Presumably uncle was not supporting your grandma and has not made payments into the account?

it sounds like financial abuse and to be taken entirely seriously. I would just make sure that adult services are aware of this specific aspect as well as the broader best interest point about where she should be living. there will be a local phone number for reporting abuse of vulnerable adults.

NWQM Thu 18-Apr-19 15:14:41

Sorry just to add...if your GM is not going to be potentially penalised for 'deliberately disposing of her assets' you may need to go to the police.

EL8888 Thu 18-Apr-19 15:17:18

I would get the police involved and get a safeguarding open. Sounds like theft to me

AnnaMagnani Thu 18-Apr-19 15:18:52

It is a police matter, it's theft.

Even if he was named on her accounts, her money was for him to look after in accordance with her wishes.

Even if he had POA, he could only have managed her money in her best interests - and as she has capacity, squirrelling in into his wife's accounts isn't that.

So it's financial abuse or if you want a stronger word, theft.

TowelNumber42 Thu 18-Apr-19 15:20:30

The sooner you go to the police the better. Even if he later returns the money and the case is not pursued.

The banks and the police are less likely to believe it was real theft if you don't report it very soon.

Speed helps your case, even if only by shifting perceptions.

BonnesVacances Thu 18-Apr-19 18:45:22

Thanks all. I'm sending all the replies to DM.

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