Help me with Power of Attorney questions....

[CaptainsGal]

My elderly parents had an EPA drawn up a few years ago but it's not been registered. I was all set to do that this week for them. However, I now understand it only covers finance and not health. I have spoken to the Office of the Public Guardian who advised me that we may be better off starting a new LPA which covers health and care too.

I am really confused and parents solicitor is being useless (I live away so all by phone.)

Is there any merit in having the LPA to cover health and care? In reality, what does it cover ? Does it mean that if either parent lost the capacity to decide what they wanted- eg care, end of life care, drugs, resuscitation- the drs would decide and not us, their children?

Is it worth going for LPA or can we use the EPA, register it and have some other document drawn up which is legal, about their end of life wishes?

[MGwynzy]

I would suggest you investigate ' living will ', but I don't think they are legally enforceable. It does help doctors and LA be aware of end of life wishes

[crumbleofblackberries]

Financial and health powers of attorney are two different things, so in an ideal world you have both.

An EPA (enduring poa) is still perfectly valid and is only registered with the office of public guardian once the person has lost capacity. Attorneys can use the unregistered EPA to assist the person even before they have lost capacity and before its registered. Both my parents had/have EPAs for financial matters. My DF lost capacity so we registered his with the OPG and used it till he died. My DM has not lost capacity (so the EPA isn't registered), but needs help with bank stuff, so her EPA is logged with her bank and I have cards etc to do things for her.

You can only get a LPA if the person has not lost capacity. It has to be registered straightaway. You can apply for one online very easily (I have just done it for DM).

As you already have an EPA for finance, you only need a LPA for health.

[MerlinEmrys]

If you decide to go for the health LPA don't bother with a solicitor you can do it yourself direct with office of public guardianship for £125 not the £££ the solicitor will charge you.

[crumbleofblackberries]

Actually even better, the OPG have reduced the cost of registering to only £82. And yes I agree, don't bother with a solicitor.

[crumbleofblackberries]

£82 England and Wales
£75 Scotland
£115 Northern Ireland

[NewspaperTaxis]

God almighty CaptainsGal...

FFS get POA in Health and Welfare! Without it, once your parents are deemed to have lost mental capacity, either temporarily or longer, then they are owned by someone other than you, be it the NHS hospital or local Council. You are not the decision makers. We are talking about arrogant consultants and the Council's social services who - let's be clear - at that point stand to save money from your parent's demise.

Any attempt to unpick cover-up or negligence, they will brazenly hide behind 'Do you have POA in Health and Welfare? No? Well fuck off then...' I am not kidding. They therefore have no interest in flagging up the importance of POA to you, and everything to lose if you get it.

We got POA in Finance, but that in itself isn't enough. It means Social Services can overrule you and put your parent in a rat hole care home of their choice - even if you are self-funding. Esp if self-funding - you are subsidising them. You have been warned.

[CaptainsGal]

Thanks for all the replies. So far I have started to register my dad's EPA by printing off the forms.

I am querying 'starting to lose capacity'. My mum cannot handle complex admin- I'm managing their utilities now - but this is more an age /generation issue due to not being able to use IT or own a pc. Likewise, my dad cannot manage complicated bills but he can make decisions about things.

The LPA- Newspaper that is a very worrying scenario you posted. Is it true? I am struggling to see how SS could choose a care home if it was not what the family wanted. Myself and my siblings have decided neither parent would ever go into a care home - we'd live in with them and look after them if necessary in their own home. Surely no one could force them into care?

Have you suffered this personally?

[CaptainsGal]

Sorry- just thinking about this again...

I am right aren't I , in thinking that if I were to register dad's EPA I cannot at the same time take out an LPA?

This is because the former requires 'losing capacity' and the latter ' no loss of capacity'?

So the LPA is the priority? The EPA they have is valid for day to day stuff like banking etc? Do I need copies to show if necessary?

[crumbleofblackberries]

Yes, get the LPA done first because it can't be done if there is doubt over capacity. The EPA should not be registered until they have actually lost capacity. You can help out with financial matters with an EPA before you register it and before they have lost capacity. I would say that being confused about IT things is not the same as losing capacity. My DM can't cope with using her iPad anymore and struggles with new controllers (Her new reclining chair) but she is perfectly capable of making a decision (e.g. who she is going to vote for in the election!).

I got a few certified copies of the EPA and I use them when I need to help with her financial things. It is lodged with lloyds (her bank), I have a bank card and cheque book in my name and I can legitimately do her online banking etc. All this even though she hasn't lost capacity. In fact when I lodged the EPA it was one of the questions they asked.