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(7 Posts)
mypip Sat 13-Aug-16 19:19:03

we have an EPA for my dear mum but are considering, mum my sister and I whether to get an LPA for health and welfare or not. We started the application but the solicitor is holding back the signed forms as my sister has advised. first and foremost I am mum's carer and advocate, am I right in thinking this will suffice with GPs, social services and carehomes for 90% of cases, the other 10% being where mum has unusual requests which she doesn't, or am I missing something, can anyone advise?

hatgirl Sat 13-Aug-16 19:29:35

If you can afford to get one, get one. They are invaluable if the time comes when they are needed.

You are incorrect in thinking that being career and advocate allows you any more decision powers than someone off the street. SWs /GPs etc will normally take your views into account as much as possible without an LPA as part of any best interests decision, but if they disagree with you they can overrule you.

With an LPA you are 100% in charge of any decisions that are made about health and welfare issues.

SWs generally love families who have got LPA organised as it makes everything so much easier.

hatgirl Sat 13-Aug-16 19:33:05

The whole thing is obviously a lot more complicated that I have explained above but the general gist is LPA is a very good thing to have.

Everyone should have an LPA in place in my view. Old or not.

NewspaperTaxis Tue 16-Aug-16 13:51:30

I have banged on about the importance of PoA for Health and Welfare on Mumsnet and if that is one thing I wish I'd known about years ago, that would be it. Get it, for crying out loud, it can't be done retrospectively (ie after your rellie has deemed to have lost mental capacity. And even if they start slipping, that can be too late as a strange stubborness will come over them then, preventing them from signing the document).

See some of my posts on the Carers and Elderly Parents forum for more. If you don't have PoA, you can't even look at your relative's medical notes, but some carer or nurse in a care home who is a complete stranger is allowed to, even if they later turn out to be not even known to the NMC and most probably therefore an illegal immigrant (and yes, that has happened to us - and the care home in question nearly killed my mother, with complete impunity).

Social workers are sharks in my experience. That won't be your experience - why should it be? Most likely you'll have never encountered a social worker in your life, and will assume that anyone who has must therefore be a bit dodgy. Wrong, my friend. I'd never met a social worker in my life until they moved in for the kill for my mother. Often they will want to get involved because then they can force an elderly relative out of the family home and into care, that way they can tap the family funds released by the sale of the house to prop up/fund their dodgy care homes. That is the way it works.

Incidentally, if red flags have been raised about a care home by the CQC, Social workers will not inform you but rather keep relatives in the dark, to safeguard the care home's commercial viability, and also just because they can.

So don't think social worker involvement only comes from a family doing something wrong.

hatgirl Tue 16-Aug-16 22:24:01

Newspapers I agree with most of what you say above but you are 100% wrong about social workers wanting to get people into residential care and 'tap' their funds.

SWs desperately try and keep people OUT of resi care as it is hugely expensive for local authorities and increasingly there are fewer and fewer placements for people who need them. Care homes are generally privately owned and are nothing to do with the SWs who place people there.

I'm sorry you seem to have had a bad experience but claiming that adult's SWs put people in homes to take their money is the same as the bizarre claims that are rife that children's SWs get bonuses for taking children into care. It's unhelpful and simply not true.

mypip Thu 18-Aug-16 15:21:08

thankyou for your comments, I'm not too keen on LPA health and welfare because the only real life examples I hear about of are to refuse life saving or life sustaining treatment, which my mum wouldn't want (she would want DNR etc). mum doesn't want to give POA to me for that.

NewspaperTaxis Thu 18-Aug-16 18:14:05

Well, I thought it was common knowledge that if you are self-funding then the council want you out of the family home because a) they use those funds to prop up ailing care homes, which is pretty much all of them these days, they are facing a crisis and b) it frees up a nice four-bedroom house for a family moving into the area and eases the housing crisis - fair enough, but not necessarily in your interests if you are the 'offspring' and c) once the spouse is out of the house, the capital made available can be 'tapped' by the council to use to fund the other half who may be in a care home. They can't tap those funds if the other half is still residing in the house.

Another reason may be that a 'vulnerable' adult alone in the house may be a Social Services liability if found alone and dead after weeks of neglect, whereas a care home resident who dies through neglect is - I can assure you - of no interest to anyone whatsoever and the care home will not be found liable except in extreme circs.

Even care homes that are privately owned will have many residents that are part funded by the council.

Every time we have a social worker round our house they are putting in a word for having my dad move into a smaller residence, even when the purpose of their visit has nothing to do with him. It's just worth a try, on the off chance. It won't be for his benefit; nothing they do ever is.

Mypip, I really don't know what to say about your not wanting LPA on health and welfare. It's not just for DNR stuff, but what if you are of the opinion she can be saved and some arrogant consultant 'knows better'? Good luck arguing that one through.

But it is not as extreme as that, usually. It's if your mother loses mental capacity, temporarily or forever, and then the state - ie the local council - can take over and effectively cut you out. Again, you will not even have access to her medical notes, so if you suspect something is going on, you will not be in the know.

Any Nurse Ratched you come up against, and it's 'Do you have PoA? Oh you don't?' and see their eyes gleam with triumph. 'Right, we'll do it my way.'

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