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Dad being forced to bed - is this abuse?

(19 Posts)
maginoliawalls Fri 08-May-15 21:12:57

My mum & dad have a live in carer, they're both frail and dad can be stubborn. The firm that provides the live in has started to send a second carer in at night to help put dad to bed as the live in needs help. Problem is Dad doesn't like any of the second carers and won't go to bed when they're around. I met one of them when I was there the other night and she said that she can't force him to go. The care manager is now getting the hump and insisting that the second carer must get him to bed .As he's not been assessed as not being mentally competent can she force him to go to bed or would this be abuse? I'm just worried about Dad

ASAS Fri 08-May-15 21:16:43

A friend of mine was in your situation but with waking her mum in the morning. Not sure if this is what you're after but she told the 'carers' in clear terms that if her mum wanted a long lie in her own home she'd have one thank you very much.

Manic3mum Fri 08-May-15 21:16:50

What sort of time is he being 'forced' to bed? Is that what he is protesting about?

Madratlady Fri 08-May-15 21:21:16

He shouldn't be made to go to bed, he has the right to choose when to go to bed, however is this a safety issue such as the live in carer not being able to physically get him onto the bed by them self? Either way you need to try to find out the reason why he doesnt want them tio help him ti bed if you can and try and sort out a compromise. Could the carer come later if it is too early? Could you switch care agencies if he has an issue with the carers themselves?

Corygal Fri 08-May-15 21:24:32

DF needs two people to get him to bed. He's clearly not being forced, is he, when he's happily refusing to cooperate and carer 2 is fine with that. Expect carer 1 to resign as it's obviously too much for one person to cope with. Or tell DF he has to cooperate unless he wants to lose his only decent carer.

feetlikeahobbit Fri 08-May-15 21:28:30

He doesn't have to go to bed but if he needs 2 carers to get him to bed and he refuses he may have to sleep in a chair.

Akire Fri 08-May-15 21:28:30

If he decides he dosnt want to get undressed with second carer as he didn't like for whatever reason, the agency should try and send in other people. If your dad stil refuses the. He gave to spend the night in his chair. Either way it's his choice.
I don't think telling carer just to do it is good practise, care is very personal I would be trying to get to the bottom of what the problem is. Unless he handles dementia etc where you are not able to pin point the problem

maginoliawalls Fri 08-May-15 21:28:41

It's around 8pm so quite early. The care firm said they can't send anyone later (short staffed).
The carers seem pleasant enough - they've sent three so far with the same result. He just seems to want the live in to do it by herself - no safety issues but she's got back problems.
It's so difficult.

Sirzy Fri 08-May-15 21:30:08

What time is the second carer coming?

If he needs two carers to get him to bed then what alternative are you suggesting?

Does he have TV etc in bed?

Corygal Fri 08-May-15 22:15:14

The trouble is that carers do put people to bed early - they need to sleep and eat themselves. And it's cruel to expect carer 1 to handle a heavy adult by herself - and dangerous for both of them. It's not difficult - your DF is being selfish. What about a bed in the sitting room?

Akire Fri 08-May-15 22:18:19

I use agency carers the latest they will help with bed times is 8.30pm as I'm in my 30s and then be in bed for 14h I struggle on my own.
Millions business's manage to employ people 24h but getting care agency to help at reasonable adult time is impossible. They seem to think carers all work 7-7 so want to get home. The fact they could employ people 7-10pm seems beyond them

maginoliawalls Fri 08-May-15 22:19:13

No, no TV in the room
I can't really see any way round this . It took him a long while to accept the live in - even now she stays in her room when possible. He just won't accept new people
I suppose I'm just worried in case the care manager forces him to bed (probably me worrying too much)
Are we heading for residential care?

AtSea1979 Fri 08-May-15 22:25:50

If your DF is having capacity issues then that's another matter. They can force him to go to bed if they are physically able, otherwise it's neglect, having said that, social services should be assessing him and if he requires a second carer to work later then they need to provide that. Having said that, If he's just being awkward and is unable to decide what's best for himself then the carers, if properly trained, can manhandle him in to bed, assuming he stays put once in.

Honeylavender Mon 11-May-15 08:12:57

I work for a care agency. It isn't that we don't work beyond 10 but we have between 8-11 people on a 'bed run' plus travel time which we aren't paid for. We have to start at 6:45 to fit everybody in. I agree it isn't ideal but really, if we only started at 9 we'd be getting home past midnight and we have to be up at 6!

MpowBristolUK Fri 15-May-15 19:04:21

This kind of rounds it all up quite well:

capsium Fri 15-May-15 19:16:06

Is there any way of making bedtime more pleasant? As someone said maybe if he could watch TV that would help. Or listen to a talking book? Radio? Can he reach a bed side light or switch near his bed ok? Or have soft lighting he could listen to the radio but fall asleep ok. Maybe you could get a timer devise like people have when they go on holiday for lights / electrical appliances?

Heyho111 Sun 17-May-15 12:06:52

I agree that your dad shouldn't be forced to go to bed. However there is a logistical problem that if he needs a second carer what time do they come. They can't stay there until he chooses to go to bed as this would be too expensive for the company and they couldn't manage their employees hours.
Is there anyway your dad could say what time he would like to go and that time is stuck to. Also can you ask him who could come as a second carer. If he has a little control over it he may be happier.
Ideal world he should be able to go up when he wants but I can see why that's not completely possible.

cansu Sun 02-Aug-15 09:08:22

Would having tv etc in bedroom make it more palatable to him? Or having bed in lounge?

lougle Sun 02-Aug-15 09:28:32

Yes, it's a specifically defined indicator of 'institutional abuse' (the institution being the agency, not his home). If Social Services fund the care you can ask them to review his care plan. Perhaps a different agency will have more availability.

You could help him with finding his own carer and apply for direct payments.

Or perhaps you could look at whether he would like to sleep in a reclining chair with a TV in the room, so he can be ready for bed earlier but not settle for sleep until later.

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