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reception/toilet alone?

(31 Posts)
mands1 Sun 23-Mar-03 15:18:07

Bit of a wierd one but my ds is starting reception this summer he'll be one of the youngest.Just wondered when they go to the loo for a number 2 :-$ does a teacher go with them?

I've been trying to get him to DIY but not having much luck.A bit like putting on shoes and getting dressed though i must confess that is probably down to me as it is quicker and easy to do it for them.

PamT Sun 23-Mar-03 16:03:16

The teacher doesn't even go with them in nursery at our school. It looks like you'll be having a few pairs of streaky pants to deal with.

We have taught our children to continue to wipe until the paper is clean. As long as they know how to hold the paper and which bit to wipe they eventually get the hang of it.

He will also need to dress, undress, fasten his coat and shoes once he starts Reception. I agree with you though, it is so much easier to do it yourself.

emsiewill Sun 23-Mar-03 16:10:59

Dd2 has to go on her own at nursery, so we've had a lot of "streaky pants" (nice). Don't really know what to do about it, really don't want to tell her to wait until she's at home (set up all sort of problems, hang-ups etc), but her arms just aren't long enough to reach. Oh well, I'm sure they'll grow.

janh Sun 23-Mar-03 17:46:02

I think it depends on the school, I would ask them first.

My DS2 was a hopeless wiper, we would have had scary skidmarks if the teachers hadn't helped him out - from a pragmatic point of view it can save them a lot of trouble, otherwise some of the kids would be in there for hours. (I'm not sure how well he does now, I mean the pants are usually acceptable but he is paranoid about being observed, goodness knows how much paper he uses!)

Many of them do still need help with shoes, buttons etc too. Obviously the more they can do for themselves the less time the staff have to spend playing mummy but I think they are resigned to spending some time getting every child trained up.

mands1 Sun 23-Mar-03 17:50:29

thanks for comments looks like i'm going to have to get in extra supplies of loo roll and washing powder!!!!

I do feel like i'm putting him under a lot of pressure i.e got to do his clothes,shoes,buttons and toilet wipes.Especially as he had a new brother and is going through that "i want to be a baby stage".On top of this he's established a stammer which he's seeing a speech therapist who tells us not to put him under any pressure.

Won't he have a sore botty if it's not clean.I couldn't imagine how uncomfortable it would be if i walked around all day with a dirty bum!!!

judetheobscure Sun 23-Mar-03 19:47:35

My ds1 is not a great bottom wiper (5 years old) but doesn't seem to get sore. Ds2 is brilliant if a little over-zealous - won't stop until he's spotless and has usually used half a loo roll in the process.

Had a lot of trouble when ds1 started school (age 4 and a half) with doing no 2s and head told me staff were not allowed to help the children at all because of potential abuse issues - I was outraged.

zebra Sun 23-Mar-03 20:24:52

Never mind wiping bottoms, what about kids who aren't even toilet trained? I know a little boy who will be 4yo in July, starting school in September. He still wears a nappy most of the time!! His mom can't afford to keep him with childminder; the child has always been a bit developmentally late. I wish I could presuade his mom to keep him out of school for another year.

janh Sun 23-Mar-03 20:46:15

What does the school say about him, zebra? What does his mum say? It sounds as if you have a good point - if she kept him out until Christmas it would make a big difference.

Batters Sun 23-Mar-03 20:54:58

mands1, my friend's ds's school has a written policy saying teachers are not allowed to go into the children's toilets at all unless there is an emergency (don't ask me what sort of emergency though, it doesn't bear thinking about ).

My dd has recently started school and also has to go to the toilet on her own, although I haven't seen any actual policy on it. Looking at it from the school's point of view, there is no way a teacher could take on regular (!) toilet duties as well as be in charge of 30 children.

I actually found the dressing / undressing issue much more problematic for my dd. She started at a school with a uniform, and simply couldn't put her tights on herself.

Judetheobscure, your comment concerning potential abuse has unfortunately not surprised me. My dp was not allowed to take our dd into the female toilets at the Rainforest Cafe for this exact reason. Instead, he had to take her into the gents. Still annoyed beyond belief about it.

zebra Sun 23-Mar-03 20:58:01

Local schools only have one intake (September), so no option of a January start. I suspect that my friend hasn't actually talked to the school about it, yet; friend is a dear, but I think she's in denial about the extent of her son's developmental delays. Her older child (9yo?) is one of these that tends to have constipation-diarhea, too, so I guess it just seems normal that the nearly-4yo has funny bottom, too.

mands1 Mon 24-Mar-03 12:35:13

Just read all your replies and it's saddened me to think what the world has come to when we can't trust teachers to go into childrens toilets.I also heard that is the same reason we no longer have the "nit lady" how running your hands through a childs hair can be abuse i do not know.

Still I understand that we have to be careful this day and age but itsn't it sad.

Going to stock-up on loo roll more clubcard points i suppose!!!!!!!!

cazzybabs Mon 24-Mar-03 14:47:03

I have spoken at lengh with muy mother about this - she has taught little ones all her life and says that usually if they can't wipe then they tend not to go...I can also see it as a when does the teacher/CA have time to go..imagine 30 children all needing to have a teacher go with them when would they do any work...but I guess I have this all to look forward to....

judetheobscure Mon 24-Mar-03 14:57:51

What happened to the good old days ?
I remember my whole class queuing up to use the toiles and the classroom assistant calling out "does anyone need their bottom wiped?"

There doesn't seem to be any consideration these days of how young the children are when they start school and the the effect of such a major change in their lives on their toilet habits.

And I'm sorry, I just do not buy the abuse argument - at day nursery the staff are "allowed" to help the children so why not in the early years of school. My instinct is the staff at school just don't want to get involved - saves them time and gets them out of an unpleasant part of their job.

Jaybee Mon 24-Mar-03 16:56:19

When dd started school, she was not good at wiping - tried hard but never seemed to do it properly - I used to send her to school with a couple of Andrex wet wipes in a small plastic bag - at least she could use these. Both of mine have gradually changed their schedule and usually now go in the morning before school (dd) or last thing at night (ds).
I think it is a shame that teachers are 'not alowed' to do this any more but this just means that we have to ensure that they can do it themselves.

jac34 Mon 24-Mar-03 17:57:42

My DS's start school in September, they will be a month away from their 5th birthday, it's been worth keeping them off school till now.
They can both dress themselves, do shoes,socks,coats etc and recently become totally independent in the toilet.
To encourage them I bought those "Kandoo" wipes. I think they find it easier to wipe with them at first, but I have spoken to friends, who did not find this enough encouragement.

mands1 Mon 24-Mar-03 18:16:14

jac34 will try and give kandoo wipes a go thought they might just be a gimick but will see.

Of course I think people forget that children are a lot younger now when they start school especially as ds b'day is in aug so he will be one of the youngest."in my day" (arrrh it's happened i've turned into my mother!!!)we were older so a bit more advanced on the independace thing.I don't want to defer him for selfish reasons (looking forward to the peace and quiet well sort of i've a 10mth ds as well).

judetheobscure Mon 24-Mar-03 19:40:57

But it's not always possible to "ensure they can do it themselves". My ds1 was fine until he started school, then within a week or two regressed majorly. You can't prepare them for that. His situation would have been improved enormously if an adult could have accompanied him to the cloakroom (not even the toilet) as he was just too shy to ask to go. I don't think that's too much to expect with a class of 4 ywar olds.

Katherine Fri 28-Mar-03 09:40:37

Mands1 - have been through this myself when DS started in January. V. nerveracking all round. Have to say that for the most part DS hangs on and does it at home. Proudly announced one day that he had done it at school but rare occassion. Also had 2 accidents but not too bad in the whole scheme of things. Certainyl no streaky pants - just a couple for the bin!

REgarding the DIY thing. It is a problem. I started a thread on it a while ago (learning to wipe your own bum, think it was in parenting or behaviour). The advice I was given was to get tough so I gave it a go and it worked brill. DH hopeless though and still has to do it if he's home. First I tried getting him to wipe and then inspecting but didn't get anywhere and realised was probably sending out the message I didn't trust him to do it properly. Then h8ing back and told him to have a go, but then he just got upset insisting he couldn't (Its a very pooey bum this time sort of thing). So finally I just went downstairs and told him to get on with it. Felt really horrible at first as he got a bit upset but within a week he was doing it himself and doing a good job, no streaks, although he does have a tendency to use the entire roll to be sure! Even now if I stay in the room he asks me to do it so you do have to keep your distance but he was so chuffed when he cracked it and is a lot less bothered about school.

So you might have a few accidents when he first starts but I get your son will just adjust his clock and do it at home anyway. Good luck.

Lara2 Fri 28-Mar-03 09:46:22

Sorry judetheobscure, you're SO wrong there, staff are really NOT allowed, in an infant/primary school to wipe bottoms as a matter of course. If a child has an accident, then we will help thwm. I don't think it's too much to ask children to be able to wipe their botoms when they come to school. I can't believe you could make comments such as "the staff at school just don't want to get involved - saves them time and gets them out of an unpleasant part of their job" - it ISN'T their job and do you have ANY idea what goes on in an average reception classroom in a day with 30 children and everything that has to be fitted in? The staff barely have time to go to the loo themselves, let alone wipe the bottom of a child who really should be able to do it themselves, with some degree of independence. Children don't actually have to be in school until the term that they are 5 - so if they're not ready to be that independent you have the choice not to send them. DON'T blame the staff in school - it's not fair!!

mands1 Fri 28-Mar-03 10:51:50

Katherine
will try to keep my distance as what you said rang bells all the while i've been hovering around he's "you do it mummy" etc.So won't give him a choice and see what happens!

Oakmaiden Fri 28-Mar-03 18:32:30

Zebra - there is always the option of a late start to school. The only disadvantage being that your friend will miss the normal selection procedure and will have to rely on a school having a place for her ds. This is true even if the school tell you that they only have a September intake - your child does not have to receive any form of education until the term AFTER they turn five - which would be a whole year later for the child you are talking about. Even then you are not OBLIGED to actually send them to school - you do have to make some sort of arrangements for education, but if you felt they were still not ready then they it doesn't have to be at school....
Although starting school can, I know, be a blessing if both (or the only)parents work.

judetheobscure Fri 28-Mar-03 23:28:30

Lara2 - you're quite right - they're not allowed to help them any more - but they used to do it as a matter of routine - so what changed? And the class I was in had 30 pupils, 1 teacher and 1 classroom assistant. It was built into the routine of the day.

The staff at my child's school were not prepared to help them out if my son had an accident. I was called into school twice to clean him up.

The school is acting 'in loco parentis'. IMO it is part of their job. Many children have accidents of various natures. If a child was sick the school would clean the child up (I assume). Why should soiling be any different?

Ghosty Sat 29-Mar-03 08:56:57

I won't get into the debate on bottom wiping duties for teachers ... the main reason I wanted to teach ages 7 - 11 was because of the thought of poo and wee accidents with the littlies ...
Just on the subject of 'teachers not touching children because of fear of abuse accusations' policies in schools nowadays... thought I would share this little story with you ...in the last school I taught at before we moved to NZ the reception teachers couldn't put sunblock on the children in the summer for that reason. Half of the 4 year olds never got out at playtime because they were struggling to put on their cream and when they were done the whistle went and everyone was coming in ... my friend who worked in reception was incensed and there was a huge 2 hour management meeting on this topic alone ... We felt the whole thing was ridiculous but in the end the only way around it was to get written permission from each parent to allow the teachers to apply sunblock on a sunny day ... what a waste of time and energy!!!
Luckily in New Zealand there don't seem to be such silly laws ... if there were my DS would be as red as a beetroot at Kindergarten all the time as he is very fair and the sun here is vicious.

wjlowe2 Wed 09-Apr-03 09:47:34

Hi,everyone I am a parent of 3 girlsand also a nursery assitant. the children at our nursery are aged from 2-4 years old and we will always go with a child if they need help. some of the 2 year olds manage completly on their on while some of the 4 year olds need help. Most primary schools expect children to manage by themselves they usually hav not got time to help the children as their classes are much bigger then the small nuesery i work at. A lot of schools do have classroom assitants 4 reception children who will take the children to the toilet but they probably have to manage the actual toileting themselves. it would be a good idea to ask your school what their policy is. In our nursery the toilets are richt next to the classroom so if one mamber of staff takers the children to the toilet the others can hear what is going on'.

iota Wed 09-Apr-03 10:42:01

Just wanted to comfirm that legally you can defer your childs starting term at school until the term in which they are 5.
Our local council changed the schools entry to a single September intake a couple of years ago, but you can apply for a place as normal and then defer it for a term or 2 if you wish. The schools don't like doing it, but you can if you want to.
Interestingly enough, these facts were highlighted to me and the other parents at ds's nursery by the local council early years provider dept (i.e. the people who provide my ds's nursery and lose his fees when he goes to school)

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