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KS2 SATS with SEN (Asperger's /ADHD)

(29 Posts)
MrsFROSTgetful Thu 24-Feb-05 09:34:12

Could anyone give me any idea of what i can try and get in place for my son's SAT's in may?

i understand that extra time can be allowed,a scribe can assist with his recording etc

he is NOT statemented- is at school action plus- writes @ age 5yr level (all words join together- no gaps-all letters spaced at same distance...very hard to read)

popsycal Thu 24-Feb-05 10:44:12

He should be entitled to a scribe (if this is 'normal classroom pratice' for him in school - if it isn't get them to make this the case NOW!)

School may also apply for extra time (usually 25% extra) but if I remember rightly, this may not be able to be given if he has a scribe.

The school should be appying for all of this NOW so get onto them about it - ask what their SEN arrangements for you son are. He also should be entitled to taking the tests in a separate room from the others if this will aid his concentration.

I am on maternity leave at the minute, but am usually in the thick of all the SEn organisation at this point in the year. Please ask if you want to know anything more specific.

Basically, ask the school what speciall araangements they are going to put in place for him and don't let them fob you off.

Good luck!

MrsFROSTgetful Thu 24-Feb-05 11:26:29

I hoped YOU would read my plea!!!

I searched my old messages about school and came across you many times!

Back last year you said to get a scribe in place...and then i moved my 3 boys to another school and 'forgot' as he was managing better....BUT....reality kicked in last night when he was doing 'rare' homework...and i saw how slow he wrote a 'simple' sentance and then how 'unreadable' it was....and then got me thinking about the SATs....and as he's not statemented......going on to secodary school sept....better these provisions be in place now....so that he may continue to get similar as he transfers.


(is this your first baby? have you had teh bay yet?>>>>)

popsycal Thu 24-Feb-05 11:32:26

2nd baby - due any day now......DS is 2.5!

Good luck with school - do approach them though and ask what they are putting in place....IMO, although I don't know your DS, even though he is not statemented, I would be applying for a scribe, extra time and a separate, calmer room for him to take his tests. The LEA usually agree if the school can back up their requests with 'normal classroom practice' - eg he has a scribe in class for extended writing, he has an IEP which mentions writing difficulties, he needs his own 'work area' to be effective.

HTH

popsycal Thu 24-Feb-05 11:35:59

And remember, SATs is not the be all and end all! It is one week out of 4 years at KS2. It is a hoop to jump through. School can also make it easier for your ds if they help him prepare emotionally - eg let him work in the room where he will do the tests beforehand, give him his timetable well in advance to bring home, let him know exactly what to expect, let him practice being 'scribed' for (eg in englsih wirtten tests, he will have to say where captial letters and punctuation etc should go.....)

I had a lovely lad in my class last year who had Aspergers and he actually really enjoyed the week as it was so structured and he was so 'prepared' if that makes any sense. He knew the timetable off by heart and ket me right!

MrsFROSTgetful Thu 24-Feb-05 12:01:37

what you have said has made me feel so much better!!

it's knowing the 'correct wording' for what i need to ask for that you have given in these posts....like 'extended writing' and your sugestions for good preparation!

if i post on hear something i need to know about....would you be able to 'phrase' it into the 'Teaching Langauge'?????

Sometimes i feel so 'stupid' asking them....whereas if i use the 'jargon' they are using- then i at least feel more confident!

mumeeee Thu 24-Feb-05 20:10:20

My 13 year old DD is dyspraxic and is on action plus. She had extra time and a scribe for her Maths and Science KS2 SATs. She did a lwer level English Paper which was just assesed by the teachers. You should definetly be talking to the School now about this. My DDs Primary School started arranging this in the first term of year six. Her high scoll is already talking about starting to arrangethings for her KS3 Sats and she is only in year eight so will not be doing them until next year.

popsycal Thu 24-Feb-05 20:27:01

Mrs F - of course I will - no worries!!!

Just a warning though - I could disappear any day to have a baby (wishful thinking) but do post and I will get back to you!!

MrsFROSTgetful Thu 24-Feb-05 21:07:50

THANKS TO YOU BOTH- AND YES POPSY- I'LL POST...AND WAIT....AND WAIT....AND WAIT.....AND BE THINKING OF YOU AND LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING THAT YOU'VE HD THE BABY!!!

Blossomhill Thu 24-Feb-05 21:08:26

BOO

MrsFROSTgetful Thu 24-Feb-05 21:11:42

OOPS I FORGOTTO ASK.... IF HE'S IN A SEPARATE ROOM....have you ever heard of quiet music being played- as i know asperger's kids work better with background 'acceptable' noise...such as music.

also wondered about if he is allowed the extra 25% time...thinking of maths particularily...can he work so long- then take a 5 minute break- then restart- still finishing in the allocated time???

and what about a dictaphone....for someone to scribe from?

popsycal Thu 24-Feb-05 21:26:33

Yes - breaks are allowed....definitely,,
if you bump this up tomorrow, I will find you the relevant document online which you can quote to your ds's teacher!!!

he will be fine!

MrsFROSTgetful Thu 24-Feb-05 21:29:24

you are a STAR!!!!

And if ( by chance) YOU ARE IN HOSPITAL TOMORROW!!!!....THEN THIS CAN WAIT TILL YOU ARE BACK!!

xxx

MrsFROSTgetful Thu 24-Feb-05 21:30:13

bh...I JUST NOTICE YOU CREPT IN THROUGH THE SECRET DOOR!

MrsFROSTgetful Fri 25-Feb-05 09:42:45

BUMPING this up for popsy!!!

popsycal Fri 25-Feb-05 11:08:53

Not sure if it is my hormones, but I can't find the relevant doecument on line - so I am going from memeory of what we did last year. Things can change slightly from year to year but not lots and lots. BTW - am a Year six teacher and head of year six - but that doesn't make what I am going to say totally correct.....this is what has been the rules for about 6 years though.

Applying for extra time
Schools have to fill in a form from the 'Special Arrangements' booklet that the QCA (the examiners if you like) have sent the school. They need to fill out the form and be able to demonstrate why a particular child needs extra time. So they often have a statement or are high up on the SEN register. They need documentation of this - the school should have copies of your DS's IEP stating that completing work in a given time is a 'target' for example. From what you say, I am sure that the school can justify him having the extra time - they need to fill in the form and send it to the relevant person at the LEA. They will have gone through this procedure before. You need to ask them if they are applying for extra time, and if not, then why not. DS should be entitled to it IMO.

With this one though, there is a deadline, and I believe it will be some time soon so that is something that I would chase up. Don't let school fob you off and say it is just for children with statements. Rubbish - though it is harder to get extra time for unstatemented children.

Scribes
Scribes are used for children who are 'physically not able' to write legibly at the speed required for the test. There doesn't need to be a physical problem but it is clear from what you have said that your DS will struggle to be understood if he writes for himself. Schools do NOT have to apply to do this. There is a special form in the booklet I mentioned above which the teacher has to fill in for each test and attach to DS's test explaining why he needed a scribe. But scribing must be 'normal classroom practice' for the school to be allowed to do it. So if he isn't scribed for at school on a regular basis, he isn't allowed to have it for the tests. Perhaps a chat with school to find out and suggestions that it becomes 'normal classroom practice' soon if it isn't happening!! The scribe should be someone he knows and perhaps works with already (classroom assistant???) but both DS and the assistant will need practice and guidance beforehand to understand the do and don'ts of scribing. Again, all the rules and regulations are clearly laid out in the booklet I mentioned above.

Another form of scribing which is allowed (which probably doesn't apply to your DS) is that he completes the test and then at the end, he sits with his teacher (and I always make sure that another adult is there as well to cover my back!!!) and they scan his test together and the teacher writes in any illegible words with DS's say so. Again, the form has to be filled in and attached to DS's test. This does not need to be applied for to the LEA.

He will definitely be entitled to work either in a room alone with supervision or a smaller working group - the school just needs to have something documented and filed as to 'why'. Eg teacher has a bit a paper next to her saying MRSF's ds in separate room due to concentration problems. He needs as few distrations as possible (see IEP).

Even if he doesn't get extra time awarded, he is entitled to 'rest breaks' (made much easier if in a separate room). This takes the form of the clock being stopped and simply re-started again so that hae gets the full time that is allowed to him. This does not need to be applied for, but as with the separate room thing, the teacher needs documentation as to WHY.

The music - I haven't done this before so it is something that you will need to ask the school directly. They may need to ask their 'Assessment Link Advisor' at the LEA - the person at the LEA how is meant to know all the nitty gritty about the rules for the SATs.

Have I forgotten anything?
Let me know!
HTH

MrsFROSTgetful Fri 25-Feb-05 11:37:30

thanyou sO much!!

yOU HAVE SPENT ALOT OF WORK THERE FOR ME!

his teacher is wonderful- and it may be that much has been done already....but he hasn't said anything since just after christmas...i know he's busy as he is also the deputy head...so what i needed was EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD ME....the knowledge of what goes on at the teachers end....i am writing a letter to him to hand in monday-


THANKS SO MUCH!

popsycal Fri 25-Feb-05 11:43:21

No worries! Hope things go ok. Let me know how it goes

Catan Sat 26-Feb-05 10:43:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsFROSTgetful Tue 01-Mar-05 13:09:16

spoke to head last night- he says because they haven't used a scribe etc 'as common practice' because they don't think he needs one- that he won't be getting it.

Also he agreed that ds1 won't be able to work outside his class at secondary school etc when he feels unable to concentrate- so whilst not starting statementing process himself he said i could do so my self (well....i know that!)


now he also said that whilst he understands my wish that ds1 does well at SATS etc....that they are there to 'measure the teachers not the child 'etc.....an dthat i should concentrate on getting ds1 ready rather tahn rush trying to get strategies in palace which he won't be used to etc.

AND finally....even if he struggles abnd gets poor grades- that will 'help' him get the support that he will need at secondary level....so i take it from that that it's better he fails than shines....

can i have some votes for and against please?!

popsycal Tue 01-Mar-05 14:56:37

I see what they are saying in some respects........they will be on dodgy ground if he doesn't have a scribe normally in school - but in moy experience, it is the school's job to make sure that he does.....

Yes - it is not the be all and end all if he doesn't do well in SATS, but isn't it the nature of children with Aspergers (and I am no expert so please correct me if I am wrong) that they need a great deal of sturcture and preparation for things 'out of routine' - SATs are very much that and NT children struggle to come to terms with many aspects of SATs - and not just 'nerves' on the day.

I would approach them again - focussing on the social/emotional side of things - how are they going to prepare him for the huge changes to routine, the unusual test format, the stressful conditions etc....

MrsFROSTgetful Tue 01-Mar-05 15:00:51

TOM dsaid last night that his class teacher has said he will prepare a timetable for the class to help them know whats happening when etc.... but he's had no specific 1:1 chatswith his teacher etc.

popsycal Tue 01-Mar-05 15:05:02

He needs specific one to one imo....just basing this on children with apsergers that I have dealt with - who have tended to be quite high functioning aspergers boys...... (is that the right term - sorry dont mean to sound all teachery....)

JaysMum Tue 01-Mar-05 16:14:41

Mrs F....MAKE THAT REQUEST FOR ASSESSMENT NOW!!!!!!!

JM.XXXXXXXXXXX

MrsFROSTgetful Wed 02-Mar-05 03:14:21

Well....i've just fu=inished writing a letter requesting 'Special Arrangements' for his SATS.... i had to do it- as popsy says they have to at least tell me why they won't allow it etc....then theres the statementing>....

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