Advice on bursary issue at 11+ school please

[NKffffffff8ae2d0caX11809b1a972]

This story is long and involved and I'm a new poster to mumsnet (have lurked for a while) but I'd really appreciate some constructive advice on how to handle this situation.

My oldest DS had a horrible time at state primary school. He is very able and was extremely bored and disruptive at the small village school he went to - to the extent that he was being seen by the EP, being excluded from activities etc. Particularly upsetting was that in year five he was excluded from all numeracy work as he had "exhausted" the school's curriculum - he spent a year working in the library. I felt it was a very poor way to handle things and obviously it led to a lot more boredom and disruption on his part.

So we looked at all the schools he could realistically switch to and identified the best option as the junior school of an academically selective boys school about fifteen miles away. We entered him for the entrance exam to join in y6 and he obtained a bursary. His life has been transformed by the change in school - despite me being warned by his state headmistress that he was the problem and would take it with him where ever he went. He obtained a scholarship and a bursary to the senior school where he is very happy in y7.

Now, to the current problem. When we moved DS1 we also moved DS2, who is one academic year younger. He was reasonably happy at the state school but we felt relations had broken down to such an extent that we didn't want a child continuing in the school and particularly we did not want him to be taught by the teacher that had excluded ds1 from numeracy! DS2 also obtained a bursary to the junior school - he is able but not outstanding in the way DS1 is. He has been there for four terms, has been in some minor trouble (e.g. "messing about" during a games lesson) and not worked particularly hard but he is in the top stream and has always been at least in the top third of that.

We have just had a letter from the headmaster of the senior school to tell us that he is not offering DS2 a bursary to the senior school but is happy to offer him a full fees place.

I feel quite betrayed as it is clear from the bursaries we currently have that we can't afford this. DS1 was offered a full fees scholarship to another school for y7 and I was persuaded to turn it down by the headmaster who has now rejected DS2.

Last year we didn't even bother to apply for a state school secondary place for DS1. Fortunately we did for DS2. I put as first preference a grammar school about fifteen miles away - different LA. Although I don't know until March 3rd if he has a place I have had a letter telling me his exam position which implies that he will have. As our own LA were rubbish at intervening in DS1' situation (although they told me excluding him from numeracy was totally unacceptable they didn't take any action) I'm keen not to send the boys to their schools in future. However getting to the school would involve me dropping DS2 at a bus stop about four miles from our house at quarter past seven in the morning.

I haven't told DS2 about the rejection. He is apparently first on the list if anyone turns down a bursary. How likely is this to happen? I don't even know what date people have to make a decision by. DS2 wants to stay at current school. I feel like they made a commitment to him by giving him a bursary in Y5 and that I made a big commitment to the school when I turned down a 100% scholarship for DS1 elsewhere.

I really want some advice on how I should approach things with current school please.

[LIZS]

I'd ask what the deadline date is first, then you can decide about the grammar if the opportunity arises. It isn't uncommon for the awards to change in the next phase of school, but presumably you'd get a sibling reduction in fees and won't need to start from scratch with uniform etc? There may simply have been other financially deserving cases ahead of your ds, but those same people may also be awaiting the outcome of other applications.

[avenanap]

Hi. It sounds like you are in a right pickle. I'm looking for schools for my son on a busary basis and I have been told by every school that I have approached that they are offered on a needs basis depending on the parents ability to pay the fees or a contribution to the fees. I think that you need to do some research on who qualifies, if he has told you that you need to wait until someone turns one down then that is not quite working on a needs basis. There is normally only a limited amount of funds but I would make an appointment with the head teacher and explain things to him. Schools do not like bright children moving. There are also some charities that may be able to help you. I know there is a charity that will help if a child is already at the school but for some reason the parents are unable to pay the fees. I'm sorry but I do not know what this is called. If you google charities, children, education alot of them turn up so you're going to have to do a bit of searching. I would speak to the head. Good luck.

[Miggsie]

My friend got her bursary instantly increased by mentioning that the child in question had been offered a place at another school (which was true).
You could always ask that if you send DS to a school with a full bursary then can DS2 inherit his brother's bursary?
Then they'll realise that you would consider moving both children.

Did htey give reasons why they have removed the other bursary?
What are the school rules on awarding them?

And there are funding schemes to help children with school fees but they don't advertise them much! The LEA may be obliged to help out if he already has a place there...

[NKffffffff8ae2d0caX11809b1a972]

Thanks for your messages. I have considered saying that I will have to move DS1 as well, as I can't physically manage having children in two schools thirty miles apart, living in the middle of them, but working in a different direction again. This might yet prove to be true, but, after the years of misery DS1 went through and we went through over him, I am very loathe to move him.

I've been told by letter that competition was intense this year and they've decided not to offer DS2 anything, that's all. I suspect that we come out badly in the worthy cause stakes as although we'd struggle to meet the 20K total fees in full we are not exactly the kind of deserving cause the charity commission are looking for the schools to support to keep charitable status - DH has his own (small) business, I work almost full time in a professional role, we are home owners etc.

DS1 did get his scholarship upped last year when the possibility of him moving on came up so part of me wonders if they're trying to claw it back this year. The trouble is fees go up significantly when you move up to senior school and anything we do to raise more money (increase my hours, remortgage, DH take more out of the business) would impact on the bursary DS1 has so by charging us full fees for DS2 they are effectively forcing us to find a lot more of DS1's fees as well. (His scholarship is not means tested but his bursary is.)

I was so nervous about moving them to the Junior School and getting into a financial mess but was assured by the Junior School head that the school would stick by both boys after admitting them so far up the school. (He has now retired.)I was so apprehensive about turning down a full fees and non mean tested academic scholarship for DS1 elsewhere last year, but again was assured by the senior school head that I was doing the right thing. DS2 isn't the kind of "prize" child that DS1 is academically. He has lost out to external candidates, but, as a junior school pupil, he didn't even get to take the entrance exam for the senior school so didn't get the chance to rise to the occasion.

[katebee]

From your second post it sounds as though knowing your financial circumstances the school encouraged you to send both boys on the understanding they would both have bursaries in the senior school..do you have anything in writing from the previous head? Maybe the current head isn't fully aware of what the school promised? I would ask for a meeting with the head, start off on the tack that they encouraged you to send both boys to the school on the assumption they would both have bursaries in the senior school and could they please keep their word..if this doesn't work I would explain your situation honestly - re: not wanting to send boys to schools far apart, not wanting to upset DS1s education...maybe they would then offer some kind of financial compromise as they would not want to risk losing DS1 if he is mega bright....If the head isn't sympathetic could you try the governors as last resort? Do you think DS2 would be happy at the grammar? maybe in the worst case it would be better to have the boys at different schools and not move DS1. Also if your DS2 is top of the list for a bursary he must be in with a good chance..all it needs is for one person to move away or receive offers from more than one school. Good luck with it all .

[LadyMuck]

Here are a few random thoughts, in no particular order:-

You have 2 children, and whilst I accept that 2 schools (esp so far apart) would be a total pain, it does sound as if your children might need different things.

Whilst it is not uncommon for bursaries to be reassessed, the school is sending you a message by removing your son's bursary. Regardless of what you do for ds1 at this point, you need to think carefully about whether this is the right school for ds2. In some respects I think it would depend on exactly how competitive the bursary situation is. For example being in a situation where less than 10% of boys would be on a scholarship/bursary is very different from one where half the boys would be on one. If the latter then I suspect that the head is sending a deeper message, and I wonder whether it is truly worth the battle to send ds2 there.

As I suspect that ds1 must be in Year 7 it might be worth seeing whether there is the potential scope to move him at 13, a fairly common entracne point for a lot of public schools. However many have their main list closed (as they often pretest at 11), and will only allow late applicants who are put on the Headmasters List (ie whose prep school headmasters make a specific request for them). This would allow you to have a conversation with the current head indicating that the implication of the lack of bursary for ds2 is that ds1 will be trying for a fullfee scholarship elsewhere.