Schools

[carne88]

Hi all,

I have twin boys who are 4 In August so are due to start school this year but will be the youngest in the school year.
Believe it or not they didn't get any of my top 4 preferred schools and was given a school i will definitely not be sending them too. I have appealed this and am awaiting response from that.
I have the option to keep them in Pre school another year and re attempt the schools next year. My question is does anyone know if it's better to be the youngest in the school year or the oldest?

Thanks

[clary]

My understanding is that LAs are more keen to consider an application to defer if it is motivated by the need of the children to stay back a year, rather than, as in this case perhaps, the fact that they didn't gain a place in their preferred school.

Presumably, since you applied for schools, you were happy for them to start FS2.

If I were you I would accept the offered place and go on waiting lists. Where are you on the lists? Were the schools you applied for reasonable choices - ones you would usually get into on distance, for example? If so, you may have a good chance via waiting list.

An appeal for a reception place is usually an infant class size appeal and as such, very difficult to win. what would your grounds for appealing be? There are a number of MN posters who know more about this than I do and have posted elsewhere (eg on Primary threads) about this.

[cabbageking]

There is no advantage/ disadvanrage to being the oldest or the youngest in a class it depends on the child.
There are benefits and drawbacks to being out of your usual school year depending on the child. You have to weigh them up yourself.

[carne88]

@clary
Yes the school I put first was the closest school to me and the others are in order of distance.
The school I have been given is 92% traveller community and was even featured on tv on a programme about travellers.

I don't know any other parents who were not given their 2nd 3rd or 4th choice? It doesn't make any sense?

I need to find out how where we are on the waiting list

[admission]

If you were going to delay a year, then you really out to have made suitable arrangements with the LA to do that by now. Having taken part in this year's round of placements the LA are unlikely to want to now reconsider you for next year.
I would ask the LA what schools have places, which you might not have considered until now. If there are any that you find acceptable then you should look to request places at the school. Other than that it is about making sure that you are on the waiting list for your preferences schools.
Having not got places in the nearest 4 schools and also know that other families have been offered places, you do need to get confirmation of the LA about why you did not get places at the preference schools. Were you a late application or was something changed in your initial application which meant that you were classed as a late application.

[SixDegrees]

I think it’s generally better to be the oldest in the year, as the child’s had more time to mature before starting school. But of course all children are different and some August born children do very well despite being the youngest.

However, would your LA accept an application to delay a year now? I know my LA asks parents to apply for delayed entry alongside a normal application for a Reception place (so the child still gets a Reception place at 4 yrs if the application for delayed entry is refused).
I guess it depends on your area but it may not be as simple as just keeping them in pre-school and trying again next year.

[carne88]

@admission
This is what I can't understand? I was on time with the applications and didn't just give them 1 or 2 schools I gave 4 options of schools?

[clary]

Op have you been told why you didn't get a place? It's certainly very unusual at primary level not to get any of your preferences if you applied on time and put down your four closest schools.

Could there have been a mistake about the address? How far away do you live and what was the furthest distance offered? Is it very much shorter than previous years - because of a lot of new building, for example?

[MrPickles73]

I would ring and explain you want to defer for a year but want to be listed for all 4 schools. Places do come up. A friend of mine got her son into a highly sought after grammar school despite not making the first cut as someone left in the autumn half-term and so he joined the grammar school then. I would lay it on thick that you'll need two places at the same school for logistics.

[carne88]

Thanks @MrPickles73 I was beginning to think it's because I have twins and need 2 places! In which case that would be most unfair!

[MrPickles73]

I would ring them and go for the sympathy vote and atleast they will tell you the correct thing to do.

[idontlikealdi]

If a child was to take the last place in an intake, the class has to expand above PAN for multiples.

If you want to defer them you need to be in discussions already.

[cabbageking]

It isn't unusual to not be offered any of your choices especially with popular schools.

Just means more people qualified above you.
Admissions will tell you how many children were accepted under each criterion. You may wish to ask what the distance for the last offered place too.

[clary]

It may not be unusual not to be offered any of your choices; what is rare IME is to put down your four closest schools and not be offered any of them. The only people I have known who have not been offered any primary on their list have just put down ones that were sought after but too far away, and not their local school.

How far away were you @carne88 from the one you were closest to? Might you get a WL place?

[prh47bridge]

[quote carne88]@admission
This is what I can't understand? I was on time with the applications and didn't just give them 1 or 2 schools I gave 4 options of schools?
[/quote]
That simply means you weren't high enough in the admission criteria for any of the schools you named to get a place. If you applied to popular schools that weren't your nearest schools, you probably lived too far away from the schools concerned to be offered a place.

Most appeals for Reception are heard under infant class size rules. This applies when admitting your children would result in there being more than 30 in a class in Reception, Y1 or Y2. If yours is an infant class size case you are unlikely to win unless you can show that a mistake has been made and your sons should have been admitted. It doesn't matter how awful you think the allocated school is - the panel simply won't be interested.

You need a plan B. If you have rejected the places that have been offered, you need to find an alternative. The LA is not under any obligation to find an alternative for you. You need to find a school with places that you find acceptable.

It is unlikely the LA will allow you to defer entry for a full year at this stage. Even if they did, you are no more likely to get places at one of your preferred schools next year, so you could well be in exactly the same position in 12 months time.

[BackforGood]

I agree with others, you can't 'have a second try at applying for Reception because you didn't get a school you wanted'.
Whereas legally they don't have to be in school yet, if you didn't start them until Sept 22 they would be offered a Year 1 place and I don't think that it the best way to start school.

[Squeezyandbleach]

You come across as a racist with regards to not wanting to put your twins to a school as it’s mostly traveller kids who attend .

[prh47bridge]

Sorry - I have seen your post that says you named the schools closest to you. That still doesn't guarantee a place. It may be that you are unfortunate to live in an admissions blackspot where you have little chance of a place at your nearest schools. It may be that you have been unfortunate and there are a lot of siblings and/or looked after children this year. Or there may be something else going on.

You need to find out why you missed out on your preferred schools. Were you dealt with as a late application and, if so, why? Were your twins placed in the correct category? Have they got the home to school distance correct? If a mistake has been made you should be able to win an appeal. In theory the letter telling you that you weren't being offered a place at these schools should explain why but in practice many LAs fail to give a proper explanation.

[Quadbike]

OP, even if you keep your children in nursery a year, unless you get special permission from the school they will go into year 1, not Reception, so will still be the youngest, but will also have missed out on a year of school.

[EduCated]

If you did manage to agree to keep them back a year, what’s the game plan if you applied again and got offered the same school/still didn’t get the school(s) you wanted? And at that point, would you feel like you’ve wasted a year?

[LIZS]

Agree with @EduCated , there is no guarantee of successful Reception applications next year either. You could accept the offers, delay start until say Christmas or Easter and hope wl places come up at a preferred school in meantime.

[carne88]

@LIZS yes that is also my thinking that I don't want to hold them back a year and be in the same situation...
I am appealing it as like many of you have said it is most unheard of to not get any of the 4 choices...

And as for being racist.....?? @Squeezyandbleach I'm sure I can't be racist against my own race???
And as a good parent (which I'm sure you are) 🧐
I want the best for my children as they start off in life so would rather they didn't attend a school where most children don't show up and when they do the teachers spend a majority of the day addressing their behaviour as they simply don't want to be there.... rather than teaching my children!

[myrtleWilson]

which admissions category were you in for each school @carne88 and do you know which category they admitted to?

[catndogslife]

I would find out where you are placed on the waiting list for your preferred schools as well. Make sure you are on this list for all of them.

What happens if you are not offered any of your preferred schools is that you will be offered the school nearest to your home that has places available. Are there any other schools that have spaces available that are a but further away? If you phone up your LEA they should be able to tell you.

I am not sure if deferring would help you OP. If the TV programme has put people off applying to that school then the same thing could happen for several years. There was a school near us that was in a TV documentary for being one the first in the country to be put into Special Measures by OFSTED. It took several years for this to be no longer considered by parents.

[carne88]

Yes I am on the waiting list for all 4 schools so fingers crossed when I find out what position we are in on the 5th may a lot can happen in that time in terms of movement.
Just that I need 2 spaces and not 1.
Just keeping positive that something comes up.
I really don't mind taking them to any of the 4 and driving a little further. Again just so unusual to not be given any of the options given?

[LIZS]

I think if one got a place from wl the other could be admitted as an excepted pupil.