leaving Steiner Waldorf education

[northernrefugee39]

I've only just joined MN and now I'm hooked!Is there anyone who have moved their children from Steiner school to mainstream like us? Do you feel as if you,ve left a sort of cult? I've been joining in some other dicussions on Waldorf- and most people seem to agree with us that there are alot of bonkers ideas - Anthroposophy being the main bug bear I have because they're so secretive, and I reckon the schools rely on the fact that 90% of the parents don't have a clue about it, when it's the main thrust of the schools core.
Would love to hear from anyone else who has moved on?

[miljee]

What's anthroposophy?!

[GrapefruitMoon]

No direct experience but a friend's child went and then changed to mainstream - main "issue" i would say was that she chose an awkward age to move him as he had not learned to read at the Steiner school so was a lot behind the children in his class in mainstream. With hindsight it might have been better to leave him at the Steiner for another year...

[wheresthehamster]

If parents don't agree with or understand anthroposophy why would they choose to send a child to a Steiner school? I thought that all these schools were based around this religion or philosophy or whatever you want to call it

[Blandmum]

I think that quite a few parents don't realise that there is this link. They see the schools are 'alternative' and don't delve deeper into the philosophical origins of the schools.

From what poster on MN have said in the past it would seem that the amount the philosophy is presented varies a great deal from school to school.

[northernrefugee39]

I agree with martianbishop- the schools are very canny in netting people in who are disillusioned with mainstream, and sell the idea of the natural, learn at the individual's pace, lots of art, drama, music etc, and in my experience they are extremely good at hedging, being evasive and saying things like- it's how much you take from the ideas that's important- implying that "we would only take the right ideas wouldn't we?"- that we're all after the main good of our children etc. The websight PLANS is really good for anyone wanting to ask about Steiner and I wish I'd seen it before we took the plunge.The fact is also- that Steiner wrote a PHENOMINAL ammount of stuff- and you'd have to be a total genius to read all of it- alot of it beyond most people- and it's difficult to find relevant bits. One steiner/anthroposophical organisation apparently advised the schools not to go into the anthroposophical stuff when talking to parents.

[SSSandy2]

haven't investigated it in any detail personally but I think his ideas were innovative for the time he lived in and may have been an improvement on some aspects of school life then but are not perhaps the ideal solution for these times. I read a couple of sites on it back when dd was about to start school but didn't think it sounded the right approach for us so didn't delve deeper.

What did you find sect-like about the whole set-up and what were the negative aspects of anthroposophy or the school day which you disliked?

[FatBellyJones]

my dp went to one of these schools and then went to a mainstream school cos his dad wasn't happy with his progress. When he gets home I'll ask him about it if you like

[mimsum]

Me ds1 was at a Steiner kindy for 2 terms - as soon as we realised what the school was really like we couldn't get him out fast enough

the whole experience was absolutely disastrous

in answer to wheresthehamster, certainly the school ds1 was at didn't mention the word anthroposophy to start with, but stressed the wholesome, artistic, natural, outdoorsy aspects

ds1 has TS but they decided that they would ignore his diagnosis from an eminent paediatric neurologist at Great Ormond Street in favour of their own 'research' which told them that he was actually suffering from a reincarnation problem, and that his soul wasn't ready to go back into a body

they were absolutely ghastly - ds1 was in a group of 12 mostly very active 4 and 5 year olds, 9 boys and 3 girls. He constantly came home with cuts and bruises as they simply weren't supervised properly - we were told he had to learn about personal responsibility so they wouldn't tell a 4 year old with recognised problems with impulse control not to stand on top of a rocking horse/jump off the table/drip wax on himself from a candle etc etc as if they did he wouldn't learn . one day I found one of the other boys 50 yards down the road - when I took him back they hadn't even realised he'd escaped

I could go on and on but I won't but yes, leaving that (alleged) school was one of the best decisions we've ever made as parents ...

[FatBellyJones]

I mentioned this thread to dp and he just said oh god no.. tell her to get her kid out of there ASAP

[northernrefugee39]

Anthroposophy is an occult pseudo science / religion that Steiner began in the 30's I think, after breaking waway fom a group called theosophy. It's ideas are varied- but mainly it's about re-incarnation, and the fact that all human's have the ability to communicate with the spirit world. They beleive that gnomes are a true, real life force, as are angels, have ideas about the ayran race being superior,that blond hair promotes intelligence, that man has been on earth since the earth began, and that the aryans came from the mythical island of Atlantis, that computers and tv's are instruments through which ahriman- the devil, communicates... most of it is totally bonkers. The main core of Steiner education is to help children re-incarnate , and ultimately reach a spritual state so that when the earth moves into it's next epoch- they can lead all of us lower autonomons. There are screeds and screeds of books, and I think I've got some of it here, but most of it is beyond me in it's madness.

[SSSandy2]

put like that, Steiner certainly sounds a bit lunatic-fringe.Didn't realise it was that weird.

[pageturner]

Lordy, this thread's an eye-opener! I had no idea about this stuff (nearest Steiner is miles away and I have a more traditional approach to education, so it was never an option we considered). Particularly at mimsum's story.

[northernrefugee39]

Yep- it sure has some lunatic ideas. Having said that - not all Steiner schools follow by the book - but all the teachers are REQUIRED to attend anthroposophy groups and their required reading list has a few anthroposophy books on it. No wonder they don't promote this aspect in their literature. It's also quite possible to go through with the whole Steiner education without hearing the word anthroposophy- because they don't teach it to the children-only THEY have to study it. In some schools of thought it is closely linked to the Scientologists.
I found the sect-like things were things like not encouraging mixing with "outsiders"- they use that phrase- and at the school where my kids were- which was a slight exception because it was the shool attatched to a Camphill Community- where adults with learning difficulies live in family units and work on bio dynamic farms and weave and stuff- also set up by Steiner- more about that later- anyway- looking backIi feel we were kind of "friendly fished"

[barking]

Hi Northernrefugee39 - I have posted before on mn about our experiences of steiner (I refuse to write it in capitals, such is my loathing!).
We use to send my ds1 to one, but left after a year, I am still experiencing issues with the place as we live very close by and are surrounded by new steiner parents moving into the street who are very 'intense' about the whole thing if you catch my drift. I feel as if I'm living in 1920's Germany! They have a superiority complex, there is almost a competitive edge to it here - with parents trying to be the most natural, the most spiritual etc. I'm sure they believe steiner invented nature. My children have been hit many tiimes by these children and the parents do nothing - which I feel is more violent than the original act itself. It is so dangerous and it is growing as you say under the guise of a more natural education which is how we were sucked in - I have got to know quite a few families in my area who have left and some have been greatly damaged by the experience.
Were you asked to attend landmark forum/education seminars?

[northernrefugee39]

Hi Barking- thanks for your comments- it sounds as if you had an awful time too. Actually- there's an article in last tuesdays Guardian "putting the record straight" about why people think Steiner education is strange. I'm just writing to the letters page but I doubt the letter will be published.I've only ever seen positive articals about Steiner and I really feel it's about time their true colours were shown up! Fancy writing to them too? Maybe we should get a load of letters off....You could probably find the article on line if you're interested. I only joined Mumsnet a couple of days ago- but it's a really good way of getting things off your chest isn't it?

[wheresthehamster]

Since my first post I have googled Steiner schools and anthroposophy and can see that the two aren't always mentioned together so I apologise for sounding amazed at parents who didn't realise the link.

[barking]

Hello again - I missed the article in the Guardian but would be interested in writing - I'm just about to go away for the weekend, but will be back on sunday night. I'll check the website then. I only recently found Plans aswell - what an eyeopener! Oh how I wish I had found it earlier as it would have avoided so much heartache.
Barking x

[inthegutter]

Haven't used steiner education myself, but as a teacher in mainstream I've come across a fair few kids who've moved across. IME they usually want to move when they realise gettting some qualifications is a good idea!!

[Judy1234]

Some of that sounds a bit like the scientologists too. But even if you don't believe in those things it still might be a better appropriate education for some childre, gentler, not so pushing. I think it's important we have a range of different schools that parents can choose rather than one size fits all as well as the right to educate children other than in school.

[northernrefugee39]

I do agree Xenia- my children did gain things from their 3 years there- my biggest bug bear is the secrecy as I've mentioned before, and like all schools it depends very much on the teachers- but all the more so at Steiner as you stay with the same one for seven years. This is disasterous if they are no good or there is a personality clash. There isn't alot of room for sensitive gentle kids either, because they ignore bullying as they beleive it interupts their karmic path and they need to sort it out themselves. So the children who tend to survive this survival of the fittest situation are the strongest and most dominant. At the school where my kids were, the role went from over 90 children to 30 something when we left; this was due to poor teaching and bullying.

[Eva52]

The article in The Guardian referred to is education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2201257,00.html.

Two Letters to the Editor were published, found at education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2205523,00.html

[donotdoit]

This was in the Guardian (eva had posted it on another thread on MN and i have just read it}: 6 Nov. 2007

"Alternative perspective

It was a delight to read Nikki Schreiber's fair and down-to-earth depiction of Steiner education (Not a Guardian-reading weirdo in sight, October 30). Alas, those of us who work in the Steiner movement are commonly the recipients of all manner of negative projections, often from those who know next to nothing about it. What is so refreshing about Schreiber's article is the unaffected ordinariness that it conveys - accurately communicating the spirit and ethos without a hint of the preciousness of which we are sometimes accused. In an era where the poisonous audit and surveillance culture continues to swamp mainstream education, viable and tested alternatives such as Steiner will surely continue to gain in popularity."
Dr Richard House
Norwich Steiner school and Roehampton University (Research Centre for Therapeutic Education)

i love this: "In an era where the poisonous audit and surveillance culture continues to swamp mainstream education" - the fact is that if steiner schools had the poisonous audit and surveillance at any of their schools, perhaps more local authorities and parents would realise what was actually going on in there ?

before enrolling my son i made repeated requests to join in one of the classes one day, always getting replies like "oh, but if you sit in it will disrupt the other children". i now realise they discourage you sitting in for too long because you may get an idea of what they actually do in there.

i encourage more poisonous audits of all steiner schools, please bring it on.

[DianaW]

"Eva" (Sune Nordwall in real life) quoted from a letter writer regarding that article:

"Alas, those of us who work in the Steiner movement are commonly the recipients of all manner of negative projections, often from those who know next to nothing about it."

Their real problem comes not from people who don't know much about them, because those people often have flowery superficial praise for the schools - their actual problem comes from people who do know a bit about them.

[northernrefugee39]

Perhaps dicussion boards like these will help people to "know more about it".

I like this quote from the letter writer

"the unaffected ordinariness that it conveys "

Anything less ordinary than Steiner's ideas and anthroposophical thought.

This is Eva on another thread talking- in an ordinary way about Steiner's view on clairvoyance and ethnicity-

"In Steiner's view, there are things that belong to the past and things that belong to the future. Clairvoyant power of the past, in Steiner's view was instinctual clairvoyance based on belonging to a long stream of people belonging to the same ethnic group, and today partly continues purely through biological inheritance by belonging to that group is atavistic, outside of conscious human control.

In Steiner's view, it is important that we as humanity in the main have lost that type of biologically based instinctual clairvoyance, based on belonging to a closed ethnic group, to instead develop a clear wake consciousness, that he considered to be a higher stage in human evolution, than that based on the earlier instinctual clairvoyance."

This is the thread- www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=43&threadid=469080&pg=14&go=go

[Eva52]

DianaW:

"'Eva' [...] quoted from a letter writer regarding that article"

As can be seen from my posting just above the one by DianaW, I did not quote anything. I just gave the links to the article mentioned and the Letters to the Editor on it.