How would you define the British education system?

[oxocube]

Can anyone help me here? I live in Holland and my kids have just started at an International school for the first time. I met a mum today who is Japanese, but I think has lived a few years in U.S.. She found out recently that her husband is probably going to be relocated to U.K. next year, around the Heathrow area and she wanted me to tell her about U.K. schools. She has 2 kids aged 6 and 3. Where do you start!

I briefly told her about the National Curriculum, about SATS and that in Britain, formal education begins a few years earlier than in the rest of Europe but the subject is so broad that I am a bit lost about what she would need to know! I did remember to tell her that kids in U.K, could have school dinners, though!

Does anyone have any ideas? I guess if the family is being moved by a company, private or international schools would also be an option. I have not lived in U.K for almost 6 years so I would love to hear your advice. And by the way, I said I would get back to her tomorrow!

Thanks everyone!

[MABS]

KS - as far as I know you're spot on with all of the info . Most pre-prep and prep schools have nurseries attached which start at two and half - three years. A 6 yr old would go into Year 2 which is 'normally ' the last year of pre-prep and would move to Year 3 in Sept 2003.

My dd is 7 and has just started Year 3 which is 'prep school' . I'm not in the Heathrow area so can't give any local knowledge except to say, don't move too near to Heathrow unless they really have to !

[SofiaAmes]

oxocube, if they plan to go back to japan and she plans to put her children back into the japanese school system, I think she may want to put them into japanese education in the uk. My understanding is that the japanese school system is very advanced and quite different from either the american or uk one and it would be hard getting back into it. As it happens, we have just bought a house in Acton (west london and not too far from the heathrow area) which is directly across the street from the Japanese School (the only one in london, i believe). Our neighborhood has lots of japanese and generally japanese who come to the uk for a short period send their kids there. However, if they are interested in an International School, there is one also in west london called the Gunnersbury International school. The education would be more along the lines of the American or French system. IMO less exam based and more flexible than the English system. The english system starts specializing much earlier than the american system. And I think the japanese system is more like the american in that respect. Anyway, as an american in london, I will be sending my children to International schools rather than ones based on the english system.

[oxocube]

Sorry Sohia, Should have added that the mum is Japanese but Dad is American, so I guess 'home' will eventually be back to the States. Thanks, k.s. I will pass this info onto my friend when I see her later today

[oxocube]

Should obviously have read 'Sofia'! Sorry: brain dead!

[SofiaAmes]

oxocube, in that case, I think they would probably want to put their children in an international school here in london. It is much more like the American system of schooling. I attended both american public and private schools and a top english private school and found that the level of education was no better in england, but certainly different. Granted that was 20+ years ago. Also, when I compare what my step children (8, 9 and 13) are learning in school (normal comprehensive in suffolk) to what my friends' children in the states (state schools in calif. and ny) of similar ages are learning, they (stepkids) seem to be at a lower level and far less enthusiastic about their schooling. I think some "catching up" happens at "A-levels" (sorry can't remember what they are called now), but this specialization doesn't happen in the states at this age and wouldn't be terribly helpful for an American University. Of course all depends on their long term plans. Not a true controlled scientific experiment I realize.....

[susanmt]

Can I be a true grumpy Scot and point out that you are all talking about the 'English' education system. We do it differently up here ......

[susanmt]

Ah well, I didn't like to say that!!

[SofiaAmes]

sorry susanmt, guilty as charged. I did not mean to include the scots in the english system as you do truly do all sorts of things differently (and dare I say better...) than the english. Most notably (having just bought a house) having a sensible system for purchasing a house that doesn't torture the buyer and seller and give lots of money to the lawyers.
Only problem is I can't understand a word any of you say. Especially after a few drinks (you not me). But it's such a beautiful accent I don't mind.

[SueDonim]

And now, Sofiames, you're making the assumption that all those well educated Scots speak with the same accent and are drunkards!!

[susanmt]

Well, it's not true about the accents!
Sorry about mentioning it on the thred, it's just that I am very convinced of the superiority of the whole scottish education system from nursery - university, and hate to see it lumped in with other parts of the UK.

[SofiaAmes]

SueDonim you made the assumptions, not I. I just said that I can't understand the scottish accent...that doesn't mean that I don't realize that the accent varies from one area to another (just like the english, american, italian, french, chinese etc. accent does). For that matter, I couldn't understand most of what my husband said for the first few months we were together (he's from very near the scottish border). And I never said the scottish were drunks, I just said that I found them even less intelligible after a few drinks.
Susanmt, how does the scottish system differ from the english one? I find the variations in education systems around the world fascinating. I wonder how much they are a reflection of culture and how much they shape culture.

[WideWebWitch]

err Sophia, I really think SueDonim was joking!

[SueDonim]

Thanks, WWW!

[susanmt]

SofiaAmes
The Scottish education system is, in General, much broader than the English. There is no National Curriculum, there are National Guidelines which emphasise skills and knowledge to be attained but don't tell you how to go about it - no prescribed reading lists etc. A lot more autonomy is given to schools and teachers to choose how they will teach the skills required.
There are no SATS. Children are expected to be assessed on a regular basis by their teachers, but there is none of this testing testing testing mentality which you find elsewhere. Assesment, as far as I can see, is used as an educational tool rather than as an end in itself.
The system retains its broad base up to and past upper secondary. Pupils are expected to study up to 5 subjects to Higher level, there is not the specialisation of A levels. Highers are something like AS - interesting that England is now broadening its system to be more like ours! Although it is not being done very well!
In order to get into University in Scotland you must have studied English to Higher, have at least Standard Grade Maths and a foreign language.
Scottish Universities are geared to fit into the Scottish school system, offering a 4 year degree structure, as we spend 6 not 7 years at Secondary school.
The system in Secondary schools has recently, and I think to its detriment, moved towards a more testing based system, but the breadth is being maintained as you can stay on at school into 6th year to study more subjects at a lower level, as well as taking subjects you excel in to Advanced Higher level.
In Scottish Universities you do not only study your own subject - I did Geography at Uni but was also able to study subjects such as Social Anthropology and Sociology, in order to maintain breadth, in my first and second years. And no-one suggests a Scottish degree is in any way inferior to an English one - if it were so, why do so many English people come to our universities?
Sorry, this is very breif as I have to go and feed whingey ds - sorry!

[SofiaAmes]

Sorry SueDonim...I think being 8 1/2 months pregnant along with all the requisite side effects has warped my brain and taken away my sense of humour. Maybe it's because everytime I laugh I piss myself, so i am subconsciously avoiding it.
Thanks Susanmt. It sounds like the scottish system is somewhere between the american and english one. Do you get schools in english that work on the scottish system?

[WideWebWitch]

Sofia, you are making me laugh with all your references to your pelvic floor But I'm sure it's not funny putting up with it...

[SofiaAmes]

sorry www, I suppose it is sort of all consuming at this point. I'm working on the theory that if I don't do the exercises I might manage a VBAC. I have this vague feeling that I did too many last time and that's why I ended up having to have a c-section. Only 12 days left to go!!!

[susanmt]

Not as far as I know, SofiaAmes. Maybe there would be a market for it? Hey, an opportunity (only I'd have to move to England and I'm pretty happy in the wilds of Scotland, thanks very much!)
I too remember the 'Oh no I musnt laugh/cough/stand up or I'll lose control of my bladder' point. Didn't realise you ere so close to delivery - all the best!

[SueDonim]

Susan, we're trying to get to grips with the English system out here in Jakarta, after moving from Scotland. The English system is, as you say, full of SATS and KeyStages and Year-This-And-That and National Curriculum. They use a rainforests's worth of paper sending letters and booklets home, attempting to explain it all, too.

The inflexibility of the system means my bright 15yr old has had to move back a year and drop subjects she did in Scotland. She's a bit stroppy and wants to sue the school for misrepresentation as it claims to be "The British School" but only takes into account the English system!