St Catherines Bramley

[Frequentdriver]

I notice a number of old threads on choosing girls schoolas around Guildford so I thought this post might help anyone deciding on girls' schools in the area at the moment. (New thread)
I have had girls at St Catherine's for almost 10 years, through Prep, Senior and 6th form. The Prep school is strong, well run and the culture is open and honest. The head is a genuine and is proactive in ensuring children are treated as individuals. However this is not the case across the road at the Senior school. The cuture there is very different. It was once described to me as " a bit draconian" which I now realise is the least of its problems. It does have some excellent teachers but sadly they are in the minority. They have too many staff members who struggle with the quality of their teaching and their behaviour in class. Over the years my children have been shouted at, called names (yes really) and when parents take the trouble to complain about a teacher ( and there are many, many instances of complaints) the policy is for the teacher to deny all. Any request to bring in other pupils as witnesses is denied. Any escalation to senior management literally takes weeks and your daughter will be quizzed over and over again to the point where they realise any complaint is not worth it and they begin to fear retribution from the teacher in question. This intimidating approach to processes is particularly true of their bullying policy. They adopt a "no-blame" policy- which initially sounds great (and probably is if you child is the bully in question) but essentially means that any complaint by a child of bullying means that child is "interviewed" at length, in class hours, to everyone's knowledge, causing more drama and pressure on an already victimised child. The bully gets to respond (but lying is obviously very common) , but I know of many cases where the outcome is "what can we do to address the sensitivity of the child who has lodged the complaint". By never acknowledging any blame lies with the bully, the victims stop complaining (or more likely eventually leave the school) and the school gets to claim they have very few instances of bullying. Trust me: bullying is very common. When over competitive girls find themselves in an environment where the teachers get away with lying and covering their tracks, and the girls can intimidate and bully with no real threat of consequences, bullying is bound to be a problem. Sadly this culture has got worse over the last 5 years I would say, not helped by a head that refuses to hear this message from concerned parents. I know parents from almost every year with these issues, and many that have just moved their girls out- its ultimately all you can do when you hit trouble. It is hugely unfortunate as some teachers are truly dedicated and the girls love them and the facilities are undoubtedly outstanding. However unless pupils can be protected from the individuals who bully and intimidate (both girls and staff) I could not recommend this school to anyone. Things are not so bad (for us at least) that I have had to move my children out-although we have come close, but they will be leaving before 6th form to places that value individualism as well as kindness.

[PuffinDodger]

It does sound like they deal with bullying very poorly.

[Straightfoerwardmum]

I wouldn’t recommend this school to anyone. It is very academic which is great, but there are plenty of others with that offering who are not suffering the same problems and as an employer of over 30 years, this isn’t the be all and end all. We are just in the process of withdrawing our daughter as the environment is toxic. The Headmistress talks about the importance of kindness, but doesn’t understand that herself it seems. There are some amazing staff there, but through a bullying experience we learnt that everything is swept under the carpet and the “no blame” focus takes precedent. My sister is in education and was able to advise us on this and said that their policy stood for nothing.
We are desperately sad to be leaving this should have been an incredible experience.

[greengogogo]

So the school has lots of bullying going on these day ??? And the teacher seems doesn't care and not deal with it properly??? We are thinking to send our daughter to St Catherine to boarding and start this sept .

Is there any other st Catherine parent could share their experience for the school??

Thxx

[HappyChapess]

It is quite refreshing to see some honesty on here. We have a DD currently at St Catherine’s and have to say that the senior school has deteriorated over the last few years. I would make the following analogy for anyone considering the school. Nice glossy brochure to draw you in however when you arrive something just doesn’t feel right. You then start getting bombarded with requests for money like a hotel offering timeshares and not taking no for an answer. I strongly believe focus has been lost due construction plans to the detriment of the school and more importantly the girls.

Alice (Phillips) has reached the end of her tenure, however I imagine she will hang around until the construction projects have been finished. I have seen parents heads sag when it was announced there would be a further delay to the Cataylst centre as the art centre had been given priority, quite bewildering until you discover that the school has a shortfall in its pension fund, now all common knowledge. The few supportive members of staff and parents will probably keep nodding and I am sure if her longevity is ever discussed with the girls she will receive one of those fake hurrahs but will then note shoulders drop walking away from the hall!

You are currently looking at a school which has completely lost sight of its purpose and potential. I am sure eventually, and we are talking years of re-building, the school will bounce back, however I cannot see how this will happen until they have a serious shake up from the
top down.

My views are of the senior school, I have to say that the Prep school was outstanding and personally have not had any issues, however I believe the number of girls leaving in the early years has increased which has raised eyebrows.

I note the original post was about bullying and have to say that the senior staff are probably the most blinkered we have ever come across. They will always push concerns under the carpet rather than address them directly and god forbid you raise any issues, a few of the senior staff require a series of people management classes. A “no blame” policy gives the girls the false sense that there would not be any consequences to your action in the future which we all know is just ludicrous.

[Owhysoserious]

Goodness - I am considering the school and I have to say that I am a more than a little concerned about the comments posted. Is there anyone else out there that can provide their view ?

[123EyesOnMe]

This thread is damning. It backs up entirely my view when I dismissed it several years ago. There are better girls schools in the area....by far!

[Owhysoserious]

@123EyesOnMe ... it really is .. surprisingly so. Can I ask which school(s) you chose / shortlisted instead? And did you have the same concerns years ago ?

[greengogogo]

Sounds very worried for us, might consider not send our Daughter there. Can't image if she gets bully and teacher take no blame action over there .

[123EyesOnMe]

@owhysoserious
GHS (first choice; amazing school!)
Tormead
St Swithuns

....but these things are very personal and everyone needs to make the right call for their daughter and family. Personally, I've never liked the St Cat's vibe...

[123EyesOnMe]

Oh, and the 'no blame' policy is insane. I have never heard something so ridiculous in all the schools I've been involved with (and that's quite a few!). No knowledge of this, but if that genuinely is school policy then that alone should raise serious questions. Serious issues can and do happen in schools (however brilliant they are), but having clear and robust policies in place to deal with situations when they happen is critical. This is not what I'm reading hear. If I were considering sending a child here, I'd review these policy documents carefully (they must be available on their website)...so that you know their position.
Best of all, ask a greater cross-section of current parents and girls for their view (NO offence to posters here!) as this will give you a clear current picture. Good luck.

[Owhysoserious]

@123EyesOnMe thanks. Have been reaching out to people I know to get a view and started reading the policy last night.

[RandomComment]

Somehow all the negative comments were made by posters who only have had 1 post. Make you wonder how and why.

I don’t even know where the school is but in this day and age, it will be near impossible to get away with something like it is being described here.

[GuerrillaShoppa]

I know of two girls who have moved from St Cats to my daughter's year group at Tormead in recent years citing bullying as the reason.

[PennyBrite]

I don’t come on Mumsnet very often, and was shocked when I did this morning, to see a couple of very negative reviews about St Catherine’s. I am so sorry that Frequentdriver has felt compelled to post on here because she believes that St Catherine’s Bullying Policy is ineffective. Alice Phillips would be absolutely mortified to read this. I know the post is now a couple of months old, but I really hope Frequentdriver has made a point of going straight to Mrs Phillips who would take these issues incredibly seriously and would do all in her power to ensure there was as positive an outcome as possible. She cares deeply about every single girl and staff member, and would not rest until a matter such as this was resolved. She really does stress kindness to everyone...always but perhaps in this case this hasn’t been effectively conveyed which is very unfortunate for all concerned, not least Frequentdriver’s precious daughter (and I mean precious in the original definition of the word). Alice Phillips is approachable and would always prioritise an unhappy girl above all else without any shadow of a doubt. I’ve had two daughters at the school and believe St Catherine’s strives to get it right. This is a very fine school with superb teachers and an inspirational Head.

[HappyChapess]

@PennyBrite
Based upon your previous Mumsnet postings your girls left St Catherine’s 6 years ago? I completely understand your historical position (albeit quite a few disagreed with your opinion) however there have been fundamental changes at the school and it would be remiss for me not to point out that your perspective is clearly out of date.
There are very grand plans afoot with developing the site, I have no doubt that the facilities will be amazing in 6 or 7 years when complete. As with any development of this size, budgets are stretched and workloads are increased. Staff are already stretched without taking on additional roles and it is understandable how the current situation could occur.

[susiesophie]

This very negative writing about St Catherine's school really is sad to see as I have 2 girls, one who has been there. She did really well, was very happy and I really cannot ever remember any bullying. My younger one is there now and thriving. . I think that all schools have issues such as bullying at any time and there are always going to be children who are unhappy. I am saddened that all this negative sentiment is posted. Why not go and discuss further with some of the senior teaching staff as I am sure that they could help and they would want to hear of your issues? As the previous post suggested, the Headmistress, Mrs Phillips would be very sad that this has not been discussed with her. She is a fabulous Headmistress who is, at all times, only trying to get the best out of the girls at school and she does it very well!

[SurreyMumDD]

Sadly removed our daughter from st cats recently too. She didn’t suffer from bullying but it was present but am sure a lot of schools do suffer, it was unsettling however as I am not sure it was dealt with in the best way. Agree, prep is wonderful.... sad that senior school doesn’t live up to expectations. I have heard it gets better as the girls get older, but in lower school when girls hormones and emotions are high, it is not a happy place.

[Tennyson1969]

Goodness what damning things you say about this school. I am looking myself for a school in the Guildford area for my goddaughter who is overseas and I have only heard good things about it and in particular about the pastoral care being excellent. Are you posting these things with personal experience all of you? None of us like to have our DDs involved in anything like this but with teenagers it is surely inevitable in any school? I shall visit St Catherine’s and see what I think of the Head’s presentation. I am minded to think that if she has been there so long she must have good experience of the issues and how to deal with this modern world we now live in. Bit of a quandary now but her Mum is keen I should visit so will keep an open mind. And I know some girls there who are very happy from what I hear. So far I have been impressed with all I have seen. The new Sixth Form building looks very impressive and it being a boarding school as well as day is a hook as my Goddaughter would be a boarder and GHS and Tormead don’t offer that. Rather put off by the Head of Tormead departing this year and the Head of GHS on sabbatical too. Thank you to SurreyMumDD for her post though - I shall keep an open mind.

[Tennyson1969]

Susiesophie thank you for your post! I feel much better now having read that as a current parent!

[PennyBrite]

Please don't write me off as having no current knowledge or understanding of St Cats. Friends and colleagues have daughters at the school. One only regrets she didn't send her daughter there earlier as the other Guildford school she chose for her daughter at 11, didn't offer the buzz and the intellectual stimulation needed, (she didn't work that hard along with most of her friends). She moved to the Sixth Form at St Cats where within weeks, teachers picked up a specific learning difficulty and a serious health issue which her previous independent school hadn't in 5 years, and dealt with it brilliantly. I have friends whose daughters are sporty, musical, arty, quiet, not quiet (!), and all speak highly of the school. Another friend scrimps and saves to send her daughter there, and seeing her thrive, doesn't begrudge a penny. I've got friends whose daughters have left to go to Bournemouth, Durham, Manchester, Cambridge universities having been encouraged to pursue interests from animation to vet science. I can only speak as I find.

[SurreyMumDD]

It fits the right sort of girl. But if your daughter doesn’t fit the school it is quite a hard place to be. I do agree with the original post that it has changed recently, as I heard so many wonderful things prior to my DD joining the senior school. My advice is to be sure it is the right fit for your DD.

[greengogogo]

Can I ask what sort of girl are right fit ?

[justranout]

Very academic girls will do well. Everyone else will struggle

They place a lot of emphasis on competition. Leagues. Charts. They are constantly competing with each other.

Everyone's position in the class is known to the girls. So if you're bottom id imagine that's pretty shit.

Full disclosure. I have a ds so the school isn't relevant to me. But I have friends whose daughters do go there and friends who have pulled their daughters out.

[SurreyMumDD]

To be honest your daughter needs to excel at something to thrive, otherwise sadly the competitive environment means her confidence gets knocked. Not necessarily academic to be honest....have found equally bright girls in other schools and my DD has had to catch up in some subjects. Lacrosse is a big factor in sport. There are some brilliant musicians (classical music is focus). Art and drama are not a focus, sport and music seem to take priority to creative arts generally. You have to do 4 languages in Year 7.....which for those less keen on languages.... can turn them off and gets quite confusing with all the vocabulary testing. The timetable is frantic .... if your DD is not organised they might struggle.... think some of the teachers even struggle.... as there isn’t time to recap, review before the girls move on. But I believe this may change as you go further up the school and the girls drop a few subjects. Hope that helps.

[greengogogo]

What about the family background? What sort of family background will fit into the school ?