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Who saw BBC 2 Grammar schools - who will get in " last night?

(852 Posts)
Foxy333 Wed 30-May-18 15:31:58

Watched this last night with interest. We're not in Grammar school area and generally I think it was / is a bad system that works for the top abilities but not for the middle and lower ones. However I've seen my daughter suffer in years 7 to 9 or a comprehensive from not being stretched and teachers concentrating on the most demanding pupils who need lots of help and ignoring the quiet well- behaved pupils who going to pass GCSE's anyway. Often some pupils disrupt the class and the whole class gets punished.

They only set them for 2 subjects and I've heard that's changing in future to one. so I see why a Grammar would suit some. But why cant all schools be good. Is it stricter discipline that's needed?

Felt for the children in the program, so young to face this divisive test.

Xenia Wed 30-May-18 15:51:32

I'm watching it now. They abolished grammar school where I was from in 1970 before my time.

I don't see why the country for a state system should have differences around the country. Either we support grammar schools or we don't.

Foxy333 Wed 30-May-18 15:57:34

I agree it seems very muddled . The whole UK had a government rule that 11+ and grammar schools were to go....So how come some areas kept theirs? Seems odd.

Missingthesea Wed 30-May-18 15:57:55

We live in Bexley. One of my DGC is very clever, creative, imaginative, very good at maths and science, but has dyslexia; so their parents are agonising over whether to put them in for the test knowing that even if they get all the maths questions right they may not get a high enough overall score because of the dyslexia; or not entering them for it, in the knowledge that it will mean DGC ends up at a school that for example probably won't have Triple Science GCSE available.
atm DGC "Just wants to go to the same school as XXXX" ( who also has dyslexia)!

SluttyButty Wed 30-May-18 16:02:04

I watched it. We don't live in a grammar area but if we did then I'd have got my daughter to sit the 11+.

We've been lucky that she's at a school that recognises academic ability and stretches them but had we lived where we did before then she probably wouldn't have had such teaching.

KittyVonCatsington Wed 30-May-18 16:05:36

Missingthesea

Please don’t worry-having Dyslexia along with other diagnoses, does not mean your DGC won’t be able to pass. It is a common myth that there are very few children at Grammar Scools with special educational needs and disabilities. In fact, because the test has no ‘writing’, it can often suit those with Dyslexia in a way other tests can be a problem to them.
I teach in a Grammar School and we have many many bright children who have Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, ADHD, ASD, Dyscalculia etc. All who passed the test and all who are supported according to their needs.

SluttyButty Wed 30-May-18 16:15:51

missing my daughter is dyslexic so they should definitely put them forwards for it.

Peaseblossom22 Wed 30-May-18 16:17:00

Very telling that the only one who passed had a parent who had been to grammar school.

HariboIsMyCrack Wed 30-May-18 16:21:44

I watched it - I am pro-grammar and went to a selective school myself. We also live in a (different) selective area and are hoping DS will pass to save on school fees

It was interesting, but a bit contrived and "morality tale" ie tutored rich kid failed, bright but less wealthy kid got in, over-confident kid failed. I also found the language used (presumably by Kent council) really ridiculous - "you have been deemed selective" or words to that effect. Made me teeth itch!

WhiteHartLane Wed 30-May-18 16:33:55

I live in a grammar school area, not far from where this programme was filmed. I do agree with the 11 plus, however not necessarily with the private tutoring to get them through the exam. The little girl who's Mum worked as a retail assistant was a fair few marks away from passing and her Mum had spend a lot of money on the private lessons. Surely better for her to be top stream of a secondary than struggling through grammar.

HariboIsMyCrack Wed 30-May-18 16:39:52

I agree White and I thought her mother handled that really badly, not just in terms of paying for tutoring that she really couldn't afford but also the obvious disappointed face when her daughter wasn't "deemed selective" <AARGH>. Unless her daughter just had a howler on the day, it would have been obvious that she was never going to pass the test. It made me wonder how ethical some of these tutors are.

WhiteHartLane Wed 30-May-18 16:47:57

Yes Haribo, I thought the same regarding the Mum. Poor little girl crying and worrying about what would happen next and her Mum made no effort to comfort her. And yes the disappointment on her face was clear to see.
My DS sat his last September but I wouldn't have put him through it if I thought he would struggle. Hope your DS does well when his turn comes.

BaconAndAvocado Wed 30-May-18 16:50:51

It touched a nerve with me as DD is sitting the test this September shock

I couldn't watch the bit when Joanita's myUm told her that she hadn't passed. So distressing.

I live in Kent (the non-Super Selective part) and most of the parents I know pay for their children to be tutored.

Equally, most of the children that I know have passed in years gone by have been tutored.

It isn't fair but I don't think it will change.

Missingthesea Wed 30-May-18 16:51:00

Thank you kitty and sluttybutty smile, i'll make sure their parents are aware.

Haribo It's Bexley council (a London borough) in this case. Many years ago our DS took the 11+ here, and when the results letters arrived (handed to the children by the school) DS insisted on opening the letter himself. We happened to have picked him up by car that day, and after he'd opened the letter there was a silence from the back seat. I thought "Oh bless him, he's failed and doesn't want to tell us," and then a puzzled little voice piped up "I'm selective, whatever that means...." grin

sue51 Wed 30-May-18 17:12:05

Joanitta (the girl who didn't win a grammar place) slept on the the top of a bunk bed with her older sister and sister's 2 month old baby on the bottom. It must have been very hard for her to find a quiet place to study and her sleep may have been disturbed. She seemed a really bright child and it really highlighted to me how unfair the whole system was.

cricketballs3 Wed 30-May-18 17:14:28

Just caught up - to hear 11 year olds classifying themselves as failures is heart breaking.

The stats re GCSE passes - of course the grammar school is going to get close to perfect and in that LA with the cream of the crop not in a comprehensive then their results are going to be a lot lower. The comment from one of the children "if you don't go to a grammar there are jobs you won't be able to do"

All it did was reinforce my opinion that selection at 11 should never happen

BaconAndAvocado Wed 30-May-18 17:24:15

cricket DD has already said she's really worried that she won't pass.

Luckily, we have a member of the family who didn't pass and is now doing extremely well at University.

Children peak at different ages.

BertrandRussell Wed 30-May-18 17:30:39

"I teach in a Grammar School and we have many many bright children who have Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, ADHD, ASD, Dyscalculia etc. "

That's a very unusual grammar school. And it's incorrect to say the test does not include writing. It varies between areas and schools. The Kent test, for example, which covers the biggest wholly selective authority has verbal reasoning, which is very difficult for children with dislexia and processing issues and maths which has to be done at speed, which trips anyone with discalculia.

Needmoresleep Wed 30-May-18 17:42:51

It is very hard for a dyslexic DC with slow processing speeds to do well on timed tests. Super selectives like Tiffin select in part on how fast a DC works.

Xenia Wed 30-May-18 17:50:57

The boy with the really weird long fringe needs his teacher to grab a pair of scissors and cut it off so he can actually see. He didn't seem that bright despite the tutoring compared with some of the others. It was interesting hearing those teachers who were against selection at 11+.

Yes, children peak at different ages. I think most of our family do best in the sixth form actually when you can give up subjects you don't like.

Anyway it's an interesting programme.

MizCracker Wed 30-May-18 18:18:08

I missed the start but was interested. I was a clever child at a really shitty comprehensive, so would definitely consider grammar for my DD who is very able.

But there's something to be said for being a big fish in a small pond, academically. I'm not sure how I would have managed at a school where everyone was at my level or above. I can imagine that achieving straight A's might feel like a mediocre set of results. Will be watching next week.

CowParsley2 Wed 30-May-18 18:19:24

Several kids with SENs in ours,my dc being one of them. Not sure why it would be unusual. Having an Sen doesn't mean you can't pass exams.hmm Special allowances can be made for the 11+ the same as for Sats or GCSEs. Aside from that the SENs Kitty listed can often be found in above average intelligence children.

BertrandRussell Wed 30-May-18 18:24:41

"Aside from that the SENs Kitty listed can often be found in above average intelligence children."

Of course they can. But these children are often disadvantaged by the exam in a way that they are not by the actual school work. And grammar schools do have a woefully low number of children with additional needs

VelvetSpoon Wed 30-May-18 18:26:56

All those who pass the Bexley test are heavily tutored (starting in y3 if not earlier) and/ or attend the local private prep schools.

The non selective schools (with 1 or 2 exceptions) are pretty terrible and suffer from poverty of aspiration.

At the grammars you'll be studying Latin, Classics, etc, the kids who potentially scored a point or 2 less than you in a selection test will be in a non streamed class with kids who are barely literate.

CowParsley2 Wed 30-May-18 18:40:07

Not really surprised when you read the rhetoric you see on MN re kids with Sen and Grammar schools. I also think primary schools often don't help either. A friend of mine with a dyspraxic child who has very untidy handwriting was told by his primary school he wasn't grammar school material. Thankfully his mother ignored the helpful advice and he nailed the exam when others didn't. I got a similar attitude with my child.

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