Education - Streaming in Year 5

[mk]

Does anyone have any experience of streaming in junior (independent)school? We have just been informed that our 8 year old is due to start in the "bottom class". Although he is not an academic high flyer we are concerned that he will not be sufficiently challenged because the majority of the other pupil have special learning needs - he is an August birthday - youngest in the year.

Also any one have experience of Salcombe School - we thinking of moving him there.

[tigermoth]

mk, can't really answer your question since my year 3 son goes to a church school. However, when he joined a few terms ago, he was put in the lower numeracy and literacy groups to begin with. I think his teachers wanted to assess his abilty before putting him in higher groups a month or so later. Could this be what is happening with your son?

[mk]

Tigermouth,Thanks for your response. I think the school has already assessed his ability - he's been with the same class group since nursery. The school have a very good reputation for supporting children who need extra help. Many of the new children who have joined in over the past two years fall into this criteria. I think this may have resulted in the average child who plods along being overlooked. Also there are half a dozen or so children who have been "kept back a year" in his class. The "bottom class" is the term used by my son to refer his group - I don't think it'll do his confidence, self esteem or drive to learn any good or am I just being paranoid about the whole thing?

[angharad]

I'd be concerned about your son being in a class with children who have particular educational needs. I went to a private school which streamed by ability and from very early on we all knew which was the clever class etc, as your son seems to have realised. Does your DS seem bothered that he's in the lower class? We had a simi8lar problem with my brother (now 10) who struggles with reading and spelling but is super bright at maths and science, at one point he was very down about being in the lowest gropu for english and started insisting he was stupid/couldn't do anything...Luckily the school was supportive. Have you asked the school exactly what they'll be doing to help your son? Will the situation be reviewed regularly so that he could move up a set if his work improved? Also is he struggling in all areas of the curriculum?

Good luck!

[CAM]

sorry to butt in but can't resist, just noticed "tigermouth" - GRRRRRR!!!!!

[tigermoth]

CAM, well spotted! I missed that misspelling of my name when I read this thread earlier today. I makes me sound a lot more fierce than I am, both virtually and in reality - you've met me so you know how untigerlike I am really

[mk]

Tigermoth, sorry about mis-spelling your name. We're making an appointment to see the headmaster and may well need to summon up some GRRRR to tackle the it.

Angharad, thanks for sharing your experience. DS has has been saying "I'm dumb" whenever he get the opportunity to do so and no amount of reasoning and praise for the things he does well has had any effect on this low self opinion. It doesn't sound like the school is set up for children to move between the two groups if they improve during the next academic year as once they are allocated a form group they remain in the same group for all their lessons. At his end of year exam (Year 4) DS got KS2 Level 4 for English and Level 3B for Maths on his age standardised score. I'm not entirely sure what this means. The DFES booklet I have refers to children aiming to reach Level 4 by 11 years - does this mean he is doing okay in English but not so good in Maths. Can anyone enlighten me.

[monkey]

I used to be a secondary teacher andthey unfortunately streamed right down to the form groups as well as subject areas,. My form group was the bottom set (of 8). Every child was on the special needs register, but then over 30% of the school was.

But there was little distinction between children with learning difficulties, emotional problems, etc. They were commonly reagrded by EVERYONE - themselves, their peers and the teachers as a problem group (which they were) and totally thick - their opinion & all the other kids', who used to say much worse comments all the time. Being moved into the group was seen as a punishment, and unfortunately some teacher of middle bands who'd had enough of poor behaviour would call for a pupil to be put in the group.

Once in, it was extremely unusual for a child to be moved up.

I really believe the school I taught at was the worst example of educating children I have ever seen, and nothing on this earth would make me sent my kids there. Nevertheless, I would be really concerned if my child was being placed in a bottom set.

I'd want to know-
How flexible were the groups? ie What chance is there for him to move up? Would it only be possible once a year (ie at the end of tests & reports?)
What support is available both within the group to help him improve, and in the new group for hopefully when he gets moved up?
What the specifiac problems of him and the other kids in the group are etc etc.

Having said that, I also worked with the bottom set in another school, and it was a wonderful place. Other kids used to beg to go to the class, and had to make do with break and lunch times, as the saintly teacher used to let all and sundry in for these times.

[GillW]

mk - you might find some information on the key stages and the expectations on the National Curriculum site

[mk]

Thanks for the info, GillW and monkey.

I am truly amazed the the wealth of experience and generosity on sharing it on mumsnet. (This is my first go at using "talk".)

We went to see another school on Friday. Just to see what other schools do. Although the facilities were not as good as his current school - children of the same age are kept in the same year group and they have a slightly smaller class number - a maximum of 15 compared with 19/20. Though I think this may be as much to do with how small the classrooms are (15 children in a room the size of an average living room!). However, the whole atmosphere of the school seemed more initimate. Perhaps DS will get more one to one attention in a smaller class group. On the other hand, DS has been at his current school since 3 years and is settled there.

I've been following a couple of the other threads with great interest. The discussion on keeping children behind a year does seem to help older children thrive but it has rather confirmed my suspicion that it may have the opposite effect on the younger ones.

Thank goodness the second DS is a January birthday!