Is it possible to find out how successful local primary schools are at 11+?

[SummerSun1234]

We live in an area where you can take the 11+ And go to a grammar school if u r successful. Is there any way to find out how successful the local primaries are at getting kids through the 11+? I'd like my child to go to a school where if he chooses this route he will get the support he needs at school. So I'm looking for some stats on where the successful kids were schooled.

[SomedayMyPrinceWillCome]

I'd be very surprised if state primaries prepped for the 11+ I was under the impression that the curriculum is so tight now that even covering the essentials is difficult. I maybe wrong however....

[EllenJanethickerknickers]

State schools won't prep for the 11+ generally. I live in a grammar school county and only private schools here prep for the 11+. Most parents either get a tutor or tutor their DC themselves from the start of Y5.

[FoxyinherRoxy]

Yep, completely separate. Nothing to do with primary and they cannot provide stats, or 'success rates'.

They can't put reources into some kids and not the others so it's right they don't prep them for the test.

[PerspicaciaTick]

No prepping for 11+ at my local state schools. In fact the whole topic of 11+ or grammar schools is absolutely verboten by our HT. They won't tell parents it's an option, or even put the date when 11+ registration closes in the newsletter. Or mention if any children get places in grammars - they just become invisible when the school celebrates the y6 children's move to secondary school.
Which is why the only children sitting the 11+ are the ones with parents who are able and willing to do the research themselves...I'm certain that the quickest and easiest way of improving the social diversity of grammars would be to start giving all parents living in grammar areas a tiny bit of information about their options.

[shouldwestayorshouldwego]

Some schools will tell you how many passed but it won't be the school preparing them. You should just look at the value of the houses in catchment. If you go that way either you need to prepare them or find someone else to pay to do it.

[RaininSummer]

As above, state schools mainly disapprove of the 11plus but also don't have time to give some kids extra tuition.

[Logans]

I think Primary schools are actually not allowed to prepare for 11+ beyond 1 practice paper per term.

If you want 11+ preparation you have to send your children to a private school or pay for a tutor.

So much for social mobility!

[PettsWoodParadise]

Check out Whatsotheyknow - Someone makes a FOI request each year for Kent and that gives a lot of data including primary schools and destinations. Someone did it recently for Bexley but phrased the question in a way that captured most data but not all. The elevenplusexams forum have linked to them too in the past. It can more easily be done for regions that have a pass score but not so easy for superselectives.

However as others have said it is rarely the school that a pass is down to, more parents or tutors.

[PettsWoodParadise]

*whatdotheyknow

[FoxyinherRoxy]

Have a look at the eleven plus forum, and for your region. Probably better looking to tutors for this information if that's the path you want to go down. Or, lots of information can be bought if you wan to do it yourself. Either way, you end up paying so it remains for the few, not the many.

Social mobility ny arse.

[Teddygirlonce]

We live in a similar area OP. Most teachers seem ideologically opposed to grammar schools from what I've experienced. And none that I know of help the children to prep for the 11+ exams. Nevertheless, in the years my DC were at their primary school there was a steady stream (possibly two/three per single form entry class and then doubled for when the school went two form entry) of children attending local(ish) super-selectives. Most heavily tutored from Year 3/4 though and mostly Asian by cultural background.

Success at 11+, particularly if one doesn't live in a county such as Bucks, seems to say more about parents (and what goes on in terms of tuition outside the classroom) than it does about the primary schools the DC attend.

[RedAndGreenPlaid]

Independent schools will publish their pass rates, but state schools don't prepare children for 11+.
If you knew how many from each primary school passed, all that would give an indication of would be the wealth of the parents.

[2014newme]

Op your child will get no support for 11+ in a state primary. You have to do it at home or get a tutor.

[Clavinova]

Here are the tables for Kent:
www.kentlive.news/this-is-how-well-each-kent-primary-school-performed-in-the-11-plus-test-in-2016/story-30483591-detail/story.html

[Clavinova]

Bucks stats by Feeder School for 2016:
www.buckscc.gov.uk/services/education/school-admissions/admissions-policies-and-statistics/grammar-school-entry-statistics/

[TheNext]

Okay, so what the other posters is saying is that they haven't had support from their state primary.

My dc go to a state primary in a partially selective county. The school website gives stats on numbers of Y6 going to grammar. It varies quite a lot year-on-year as the cohorts are small (rural school), some years hardly any kids take the test and some years they all do (and a couple of years back they all got in). The children are given CATS at the start of Y5 and then the school will discuss secondary school plans with parents and offer advice on whether a grammar school might suit. The school doesn't offer nvr and vr practice, but we were advised on good preparation materials for the test. Over the summer after Y5 the kids were given a wodge of "optional summer brain stretching" which consisted of maths, spellings, and verbal and non verbal reasoning practice. The school has been immensely supportive, and it's in its interest to do so as prospective parents are interested in the grammar school pass rate and it's a selling point that some years we outdo the local private schools. Despite the general decline in pupil numbers at tiny rural schools like ours, we're bucking the trend, and that is in part due to the fact that the school is committed, openly, to ensuring each child receives the education that suits them, which includes encouraging those for whom grammar would be a good option, and gently discouraging parents from putting their child through the process when they don't have a chance or when the things that the comprehensive offers suit the child better.

[Logans]

Okay, so what the other posters is saying is that they haven't had support from their state primary.

No it isn't. We are saying that Primary schools are not allowed to offer preparation. Your school offers support not preparation; you don't do 1 practice paper a day and have daily lessons devoted to how to solve particular question types.

[SummerSun1234]

Oh goodness! What a can of worms I've opened there. I know they can't tutor on vr etc but I'd like to know that DCs school would be supportive if one of them was academic. Why are so many schools against the grammars? If they are there and they suit a child's needs why deprive them?

TheNext that school sounds amazing! I'm off to check the website of our local primaries to see if they have any info. Thanks!

[FoxyinherRoxy]

Resources are limited and stretched enough as it is. State primaries need to serve everyone.

[2014newme]

You're naive op. Plenty of very academic children don't go to grammar schools.

[2014newme]

Do update with your findings

[SKYTVADDICT]

Pretty sure my yr6 is having daily practices since going back. That's what he tells me anyway. Large state primary. 3 sets all doing lots of practice, even those not taking it he says! 1 paper down and 1 to go!

[FoxyinherRoxy]

I find many, many parents expect our primary to do prep. They just don't appreciate that it's not appropriate for everyone, parents would blame the school if their child didn't get in to GS. Practice papers are widely available for parents anyway. CEM tests are meant to be 'tutor-proof' (which is nonsense).

[Logans]

OP this is the policy for Kent 11+ and teaching in Primary. I can assure you it is the same / similar across the country:

1. To what extent are KCC primary schools allowed to assist pupils taking
   the Kent Test (11+)? Schools taking part (both state and independent)
   administer the tests, including one set of practice tests which KCC
   provides shortly before the main tests, with the intention of ensuring
   that children understand the format, the time constraint and the need for
   exam conditions. Beyond this, preparation should not be required and coaching is not permitted.
       
   
2. Can Kent Test techniques be taught in class? Schools should not be using class time to teach 'Kent test techniques'. It is, however,
   reasonable for a school to check that children have understood basic points, such as that they need to place their answers on the separate answer sheet, not in the question booklet, and how to mark the sheet so that their intended answer can be clearly read. These instructions are
   given with the practice tests, along with the advice about not spending too long on a question but returning to it if time permits.
   
       
   
3. Is such teaching encouraged or discouraged? Preparation for the tests is not encouraged and coaching is not permitted, both because it is counter to the purpose of the tests and because it takes time which should be available to deliver the National Curriculum, an activity relevant to
   all children in the year group. The maths paper is based on the National Curriculum programme of study, which state primary schools will be teaching as a matter of course.
       
   
4. Do teaching decisions in relation to the Kent Test rest with individual primary schools/headteachers? Inevitably, Heads will exercise a degree of professional discretion in* distinguishing between normal classroom activity designed to stretch and develop their most able pupils and activity which could be seen as preparation for 11+ testing, but all participating schools are expected to follow* our instructions.
       
   
5. What restrictions, if any, apply to preparing/training/teaching pupils for the Kent Test? The* instructions sent to all participating schools confirm that coaching is not permitted. There are no permissions given or definitions of what might be regarded as acceptable preparation for selection tests, because these might be seen as encouraging preparation, which we do not wish to do.*