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5 yo boy behaviour in school

(55 Posts)
dilligaf Tue 13-Jul-04 14:38:52

we moved to the country from the town last year. Had to change ds school from small private class of 10 to state primary class of 30. Also a job share situation so 2 teachers to get used to. Ds behaved badly wont conform and doesnt complete tasks e.g writing which he hates. Can read OK. Slow at changing for P.e. Has seen various professionals no diagnosis of any problem. Is fine in all other situations polite and pleasant. Other children like him and he has contact with lots of our long term friends. We want to go back to the town but are concerned that he will have problems with the move. Currently attends school part-time different arrangements on different days - very confusing . Has made progress and is behaving better though lots of room for improvement! Where do we go from here anyone been in similar situation?

dilligaf Fri 30-Jul-04 08:32:36

thanks lets hope it was a one off he never pushes other children so it was a bit out of character.we are going on holiday tomorrow so iwont be online for 3 weeks no internet access. will let you all know how he is in the new term

littlemissbossy Fri 30-Jul-04 08:21:33

For what it's worth, my dss's school have a policy now about taking extra drinks into school. Reception, Yr1 and Yr2 are given a drink after morning and afternoon breaks, either milk (that parents have to pay for) or water. Yrs 3-6 can take a sports bottle with water to drink throughout the day, it is classed as a privilege and they have strict rules i.e. not throwing it round the classroom or at each other!
BTW I agree that it was wrong of him to just take the drink and push the teacher ... but let's not forget he's only 5!!! try not to worry too much, my dss also once kicked his teacher because "that woman is always shouting" - he never did again though.

dilligaf Fri 30-Jul-04 07:48:18

i agree that under no circumstances should a child push a teacher. i was just explaining the background to what happened. we have told ds that no way do you either refuse to do what the teacher says nor do you push or hit any adult. On the whole the school have tried very hard to help him settle in. I think the problem of the drink came about because he was not getting a drink at lunchtime he was bringing it home unopened. have spoken to the school and dinner ladies will try to ensure he gets a drink. also i think the other teacher (job share) tends to let them have a drink when they want one so he was perhaps confused as to the rule - still as you say no excuse. i am hoping he will settle down next term. we are reinforcing the kind of behaviour he needs to exhibit in school. he actually seems to be making progresss with writng i have been trying to do a little reading and writing with him everyday so he maybe he will feel more able to cope with the demands placed on him. at the end of the day ia am sure we all (school and home) want the same things for him. I was actually told what happened by another adult who was present.

tigermoth Thu 29-Jul-04 09:07:15

somehow it seems to me that a whole chunk has been missed out of this story. A child asks for a drink, teacher says it's not the right time for drinks, child gets flask from lunchbox, teacher holds it over his head, child pushes teacher, teacher threatens exclusion if it happens again.

Well, is this the first time the child has asked for a drink? has the teacher provided a cup of water many times already that day? has the teacher warned to child not to ask again? was break time coming up? I don't know what to think.

I can see good reasons why a teacher would not allow water flasks permanently on a desk. My sons are fiddlers. I guarantee they would be forever unscrewing the lids and inevitably water would get spilt. At worst you could have quite a water fight with 30 children all squirting their drinks bottles at each other.

I cannot imagine that a teacher or classroom assistant would not respond to a plea for a drink if it happened the once, unless lunchtinme or breaktime was about to start. If dilligaf's boy had only asked the once, and the teacher responded as she did, then that's bad.

A slightly similar thing happened with my son in reception. Apparently he kept asking if he could go off to the loos by himself during lesson time. The teachers were fine about him doing this to begin with, but cottoned on to the fact that he was more happy to be in the loos than in the classroom. The teacher talked to us about the need for ds to fit in with school routine and said she would stop letting him go to the loo alone during lesson time if this continued. He would be allowed to go only when an assistant was free to take him. I had no problem with this - it didn't feel like she was being harsh because she had spoken to us, and my son was making going to the loo into a game.

donnie Wed 28-Jul-04 22:36:10

it's not harsh marthamoo, it is common sense.Pushing is definitely NOT ok.End of.

marthamoo Wed 28-Jul-04 20:24:52

While I do think children should have access to drinking water at all times (and they do in my ds's school - as others have mentioned they have sports bottles on the table) I cannot condone a 5 year old pushing a teacher. I would be appalled if my child did that. If the teacher had said he was not allowed at that time to have a drink I don't see what choice she had other than to take the bottle away from him when he went to get it. A teacher has to maintain control and discipline in a classroom - she couldn't allow herself to be undermined in that way, she would immediately lose her authority in the classroom. I doubt very much that she was taunting him by holding it above his head - she was probably just holding it out of his reach. I don't know - I wasn't there, and I wouldn't take a child's word as absolute gospel either, they have different ways of interpreting things. When I was 4 I told all and sundry that the mark on my face was where "Mummy had burned me with a cigarette." I had actually run into the cigarette she was holding. I don't think I would have left it to fester over the summer holidays - I would have gone in to have a word with his teacher the next day.

It sounds like you are unhappy with his schooling altogether (and I agree the joined up writing at 5 is ridiculous - ds1 has only just started this at the end of Year 2, and plenty of the children can't do it at all) but pushing an adult is not acceptable behaviour wherever your son is educated. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

hercules Wed 28-Jul-04 20:09:27

Children of all ages retell things differently to suit their aim. Adults do this as well. Where would we be if we took the word of a five year old to be exact without finding out from someone else what happened.
My ds told me all sorts of things and still do that I know to be a twist of the truth. I do it as wellif I want to get a point across.
Five year olds see the world differently and will retell it to suit them. I have no idea if this happened in this case but noone does without discussing it with the adult.
It doesnt make them naughty just human. As adults we need to recognise this and take what they say with a pinch of salt rather than leaping in and slagging off the adult involved.

Cam Wed 28-Jul-04 19:57:33

I don't agree with your last sentence Hercules.

hercules Wed 28-Jul-04 19:40:16

I think the point that I wanted to make was that the teacher has been slagged off yet the person who did this hasnt actually even spoken to the teacher to find out what actually happened.
A five year olds view of events are very different from an adults.

MeanBean Wed 28-Jul-04 19:36:38

Just to play devil's advocate (well, it's quiet and Corrie hasn't started yet!), I would like to say that although I agree that jrsmum's post was quite emphatic, what I have noticed is that quite often, teachers on Mumsnet more or less do what they always complain badly behaved parents do - automatically take the side of the person to whom they feel a gut loyalty, in this case, the teacher's. Teachers aren't always in the right guys, and just because somebody takes a child's side, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are the parents from hell who refuse to back the school over discipline and rush around threatening to beat up teachers every time their kids get into trouble. It can be very irritating to have that implied, and so not surprising if someone reacts quite forcibly to that...

hercules Wed 28-Jul-04 16:04:42

Or were you actually there jrsmum because I'm amazed you're able to judge the situation so well?

hercules Wed 28-Jul-04 16:03:09

As a caring teacher part of what we have to put up with is parents attitudes as seen here. Sadly many parents always think their child is in the right, slag the teacher off (often in front of the child) before actually finding out what happened.
I would never jump to conclusions as in most cases the adult version of what actually if
happened is very different.
If the parents show suc little respect is it any wonder the kids dont!

donnie Wed 28-Jul-04 15:38:23

well the 'care and compassion' you insist should be part of a teacher's attitude is not exactly evident in your rather abusive and threatening post is it jr's mum? I wonder why you feel the need to be so aggressive.

johno Tue 27-Jul-04 21:48:39

i agree jrsmum, at 5 children are vunerable, teachers of this age group should have methods of making school enjoyable, no wonder kids hate school as they grow up

jrsmum Tue 27-Jul-04 21:45:26

Twinkie, You can hope to who you like but if it was my ds I would say a lot more. In my view teachers have a duty of care and compassion and I would like to believe they do the job because they like children not that they want to be cuel to them.
Anyone who deprived my son of a drink would be in deep trouble with me. At the end of the day children are young for a short time and need to enjoy each day. If some miserable old cow wants to upset kids then I suggest she doesn't come near mine. Who by the way will have a moral and social resposibilty but also the balls to stand up for them selves just in case they meet idiots like you!

dilligaf Fri 16-Jul-04 13:49:06

thanks for all the input i am going to take some space now to think about everything posted. Will let you all know decision and outcome eventually!

MeanBean Fri 16-Jul-04 13:23:48

At my DS's school, as at Mioau's child's school, all children have a sports bottle of water on the desk and nobody thinks it is necessary or desirable to limit the amount of liquid they can drink. There has never been a recorded case where this has caused any problem whatsoever.

And the fact that there is this blanket policy on joined up writing at five, which is actually undermining children's confidence and ability to read and write, and takes absolutely no account whatsoever of the individual needs of children, would make me seriously question the ethos of the school.

agy Fri 16-Jul-04 12:58:40

Five just seems very young to not allow him to get a drink. They're still quite fresh from playgroup/nursery where they would get drinks. And that school must be a one- off with the joined up writing at five! Bit strange.

Miaou Fri 16-Jul-04 12:55:26

At the end of the day dilligaf, you and dh are the only people who truly know what ds is like and are the only ones who have the make the decisions about what to do next. It is easy for us to sit here and say "move him" or whatever, we don't have to do it! But hopefully, seeing the different points of view expressed here will help you to think about the whole situation from both sides.

FWIW I *do* think that speaking to the school is a very good idea, if only to get a handle on what THEY want to do about the situation. If their attitude is "we can sort it, but we need to do x/need you to do y/etc", then stick with them. If you feel that they are not being constructive, then that is the time to think again. HTH.

Miaou Fri 16-Jul-04 12:21:04

Twinkie I do agree that any physical action against an authority figure does have to be dealt with seriously - I would expect it to be taken seriously and would never try to excuse it - it's very important that children learn from a very young age that it is completely unacceptable. I just have an issue with exclusion at the age of five, particularly used for a child who does not like school - if it was my child I would be v. worried they would pick up the wrong signals (ie if I am very naughty they will let me have a day off school).

Anyway, we digress from the real issue here.

JanZ Fri 16-Jul-04 12:13:56

I am surprised about abut not letting him drink. There is plenty of research to show that people (and that includes kids!) lose concentration if they becoem dehydrated - and when you feel thirsty, you already are dehydrated.

I thought that schools were now being encouraged to ENCOURAGE children to drink water freely - See this advice from Teachernet - which is a web site essentailly providing advice form the Department for Skills and Education. So you could argue that they are going AGAINST government advice!

It may be worth going in armed with this - and pointing out that they are HARMING the children and thier ability to learn by not letting them drink more freely.

With regard to the joined up writing - is it worth getting in touch with an educational advisor at the LEA to ask them what the policy is. It seems very strange and excessive for a child in their first year.

Twinkie Fri 16-Jul-04 12:11:59

Miaou - Sorry but any physical threat to a teacher whether it be from a 13 year old or a 5 year old needs to be taken seriously - I would be horrified if DD did that to some one in authority not try and make excuses for it.

dilligaf Fri 16-Jul-04 12:10:41

Sorry i should have said i was teacher in the dim and distant past so i do understand the problems. we have met with the teachers and the head and we are all trying to be consistent with him at home and school. Perhaps it will take longer to work.

Miaou Fri 16-Jul-04 12:09:39

Just as a point of interest the children at my dd's school have those sports bottles of water on their tables, with the spouts, so if they got knocked over they would cause no harm. They are not allowed them near the computers though.

Twinkie Fri 16-Jul-04 12:07:54

I wasn't attacking you or saying that you brought up delinquents I was just trying to get a point across - we are all touchy about things to do with our DDs/DSs but I don't think you should just move his school without trying to get him to behave and I don't think he has an automatic right to be able to go to he loo or have a drink when he wants if it is not school policy just because you think it is right. If you are that bothered see what other parents think and maybe you canget this changed but until then he has to understadn that there are rules that he must obey.

Sorry if I have offended you at all.

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