5 yo boy behaviour in school(55 Posts)
we moved to the country from the town last year. Had to change ds school from small private class of 10 to state primary class of 30. Also a job share situation so 2 teachers to get used to. Ds behaved badly wont conform and doesnt complete tasks e.g writing which he hates. Can read OK. Slow at changing for P.e. Has seen various professionals no diagnosis of any problem. Is fine in all other situations polite and pleasant. Other children like him and he has contact with lots of our long term friends. We want to go back to the town but are concerned that he will have problems with the move. Currently attends school part-time different arrangements on different days - very confusing . Has made progress and is behaving better though lots of room for improvement! Where do we go from here anyone been in similar situation?
I have brought up 3 other children eldest is an accountant middle is married and the third is an air traffic controller in the Raf. None of them are delinquints. He has clear boundaries at home and is very well behaved when out. We just took him to Disney and he was extremely well behaved. We never undermine the school in his hearing and try to be suportive of them I am not the only person to have had problems with the teacher. Maybe its a bit of a mismatch as he seems to be fine with the other teacher and when they have had substitutes.Hes not perfect and I know he can be difficult. thats why i started this thread just to get an overview and see if others thought i was being too touchy.
dilligaf - I would investigate what concerns the other school had about your ds if I were you. I don't think it's acceptable that they have obv passed something on to the new school you are not aware of that has not been raised with you. i agree your ds could be playing up in the new bigger class - it could also be that the new school have labelled him as a result of what they have been told....could be six of one and half a dozen of the other IYKWIM.
The school's drinks policy sounds totally old fashioned - most primary schools here let the children have water on their desks. Research shows that brain function/ concentration is impaired with dehydration - so this actually aids learning. I'd take this up with the school of you decide to keep your son there.
I agree with you Twinkie. It is not possible for children to have drinks on their desks- what happens when they get knocked over? Part of going to school is accepting that there are times to do things and you cannot have a drink or go to the toilet when you please. Tbh it sounds as if the teacher was holding it so he could not reach it as opposed to taunting him.
If I were you I'd speak to his teacher about how he's getting on in school. Also you mustnt discuss any of this in front of him which I'm sure you dont anyway.
There are primary teachers on mumsnet who I'm sure would be able to give advice.
Twinks I honestly think that if he was running rings round dilligaf it would show up in other situations too - she does say that he is well behaved and polite at other times, including swimming lessons (so he can obviously do as he is told). Of course we only have dillifag and jrsmum's words for it - but there has to be a balance between what is acceptable (or expectable) behaviour for a five year old and acceptable for the teacher. IMHO witholding drinks is not.
Incidentally, my dd2 is similar - nice, polite girl, gets on well with others, co-operates at school when she enjoys things but does not work well at others (eg writing and getting changed for PE!!). However the teachers attitude is not "this child has problems", but "how can we help this child to adjust". And I am sure the teacher thinks I indulge her too, but she still has dd2's best interests at heart! I know that if dd2 pushed the teacher then she would get a row and a punishment but CERTAINLY NOT threatened with exclusion - what would that teach her?
Surely the best thing is to meet with the teacher. It is hard to know what is going on when you are being told what happened by a 5 year old. DS when he was the age said that his headmaster locked him in a cupboard!!
I wasn't attacking you or saying that you brought up delinquents I was just trying to get a point across - we are all touchy about things to do with our DDs/DSs but I don't think you should just move his school without trying to get him to behave and I don't think he has an automatic right to be able to go to he loo or have a drink when he wants if it is not school policy just because you think it is right. If you are that bothered see what other parents think and maybe you canget this changed but until then he has to understadn that there are rules that he must obey.
Sorry if I have offended you at all.
Just as a point of interest the children at my dd's school have those sports bottles of water on their tables, with the spouts, so if they got knocked over they would cause no harm. They are not allowed them near the computers though.
Sorry i should have said i was teacher in the dim and distant past so i do understand the problems. we have met with the teachers and the head and we are all trying to be consistent with him at home and school. Perhaps it will take longer to work.
Miaou - Sorry but any physical threat to a teacher whether it be from a 13 year old or a 5 year old needs to be taken seriously - I would be horrified if DD did that to some one in authority not try and make excuses for it.
I am surprised about abut not letting him drink. There is plenty of research to show that people (and that includes kids!) lose concentration if they becoem dehydrated - and when you feel thirsty, you already are dehydrated.
I thought that schools were now being encouraged to ENCOURAGE children to drink water freely - See this advice from Teachernet - which is a web site essentailly providing advice form the Department for Skills and Education. So you could argue that they are going AGAINST government advice!
It may be worth going in armed with this - and pointing out that they are HARMING the children and thier ability to learn by not letting them drink more freely.
With regard to the joined up writing - is it worth getting in touch with an educational advisor at the LEA to ask them what the policy is. It seems very strange and excessive for a child in their first year.
Twinkie I do agree that any physical action against an authority figure does have to be dealt with seriously - I would expect it to be taken seriously and would never try to excuse it - it's very important that children learn from a very young age that it is completely unacceptable. I just have an issue with exclusion at the age of five, particularly used for a child who does not like school - if it was my child I would be v. worried they would pick up the wrong signals (ie if I am very naughty they will let me have a day off school).
Anyway, we digress from the real issue here.
At the end of the day dilligaf, you and dh are the only people who truly know what ds is like and are the only ones who have the make the decisions about what to do next. It is easy for us to sit here and say "move him" or whatever, we don't have to do it! But hopefully, seeing the different points of view expressed here will help you to think about the whole situation from both sides.
FWIW I *do* think that speaking to the school is a very good idea, if only to get a handle on what THEY want to do about the situation. If their attitude is "we can sort it, but we need to do x/need you to do y/etc", then stick with them. If you feel that they are not being constructive, then that is the time to think again. HTH.
Five just seems very young to not allow him to get a drink. They're still quite fresh from playgroup/nursery where they would get drinks. And that school must be a one- off with the joined up writing at five! Bit strange.
At my DS's school, as at Mioau's child's school, all children have a sports bottle of water on the desk and nobody thinks it is necessary or desirable to limit the amount of liquid they can drink. There has never been a recorded case where this has caused any problem whatsoever.
And the fact that there is this blanket policy on joined up writing at five, which is actually undermining children's confidence and ability to read and write, and takes absolutely no account whatsoever of the individual needs of children, would make me seriously question the ethos of the school.
thanks for all the input i am going to take some space now to think about everything posted. Will let you all know decision and outcome eventually!
Twinkie, You can hope to who you like but if it was my ds I would say a lot more. In my view teachers have a duty of care and compassion and I would like to believe they do the job because they like children not that they want to be cuel to them.
Anyone who deprived my son of a drink would be in deep trouble with me. At the end of the day children are young for a short time and need to enjoy each day. If some miserable old cow wants to upset kids then I suggest she doesn't come near mine. Who by the way will have a moral and social resposibilty but also the balls to stand up for them selves just in case they meet idiots like you!
i agree jrsmum, at 5 children are vunerable, teachers of this age group should have methods of making school enjoyable, no wonder kids hate school as they grow up
well the 'care and compassion' you insist should be part of a teacher's attitude is not exactly evident in your rather abusive and threatening post is it jr's mum? I wonder why you feel the need to be so aggressive.
As a caring teacher part of what we have to put up with is parents attitudes as seen here. Sadly many parents always think their child is in the right, slag the teacher off (often in front of the child) before actually finding out what happened.
I would never jump to conclusions as in most cases the adult version of what actually if
happened is very different.
If the parents show suc little respect is it any wonder the kids dont!
Or were you actually there jrsmum because I'm amazed you're able to judge the situation so well?
Just to play devil's advocate (well, it's quiet and Corrie hasn't started yet!), I would like to say that although I agree that jrsmum's post was quite emphatic, what I have noticed is that quite often, teachers on Mumsnet more or less do what they always complain badly behaved parents do - automatically take the side of the person to whom they feel a gut loyalty, in this case, the teacher's. Teachers aren't always in the right guys, and just because somebody takes a child's side, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are the parents from hell who refuse to back the school over discipline and rush around threatening to beat up teachers every time their kids get into trouble. It can be very irritating to have that implied, and so not surprising if someone reacts quite forcibly to that...
I think the point that I wanted to make was that the teacher has been slagged off yet the person who did this hasnt actually even spoken to the teacher to find out what actually happened.
A five year olds view of events are very different from an adults.
Children of all ages retell things differently to suit their aim. Adults do this as well. Where would we be if we took the word of a five year old to be exact without finding out from someone else what happened.
My ds told me all sorts of things and still do that I know to be a twist of the truth. I do it as wellif I want to get a point across.
Five year olds see the world differently and will retell it to suit them. I have no idea if this happened in this case but noone does without discussing it with the adult.
It doesnt make them naughty just human. As adults we need to recognise this and take what they say with a pinch of salt rather than leaping in and slagging off the adult involved.
While I do think children should have access to drinking water at all times (and they do in my ds's school - as others have mentioned they have sports bottles on the table) I cannot condone a 5 year old pushing a teacher. I would be appalled if my child did that. If the teacher had said he was not allowed at that time to have a drink I don't see what choice she had other than to take the bottle away from him when he went to get it. A teacher has to maintain control and discipline in a classroom - she couldn't allow herself to be undermined in that way, she would immediately lose her authority in the classroom. I doubt very much that she was taunting him by holding it above his head - she was probably just holding it out of his reach. I don't know - I wasn't there, and I wouldn't take a child's word as absolute gospel either, they have different ways of interpreting things. When I was 4 I told all and sundry that the mark on my face was where "Mummy had burned me with a cigarette." I had actually run into the cigarette she was holding. I don't think I would have left it to fester over the summer holidays - I would have gone in to have a word with his teacher the next day.
It sounds like you are unhappy with his schooling altogether (and I agree the joined up writing at 5 is ridiculous - ds1 has only just started this at the end of Year 2, and plenty of the children can't do it at all) but pushing an adult is not acceptable behaviour wherever your son is educated. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
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