5 yo boy behaviour in school

[dilligaf]

we moved to the country from the town last year. Had to change ds school from small private class of 10 to state primary class of 30. Also a job share situation so 2 teachers to get used to. Ds behaved badly wont conform and doesnt complete tasks e.g writing which he hates. Can read OK. Slow at changing for P.e. Has seen various professionals no diagnosis of any problem. Is fine in all other situations polite and pleasant. Other children like him and he has contact with lots of our long term friends. We want to go back to the town but are concerned that he will have problems with the move. Currently attends school part-time different arrangements on different days - very confusing . Has made progress and is behaving better though lots of room for improvement! Where do we go from here anyone been in similar situation?

[marialuisa]

Um, would you move him back to the old school or were the problems the same there?

[Jimjams]

Will he be staying full time next year? My son currently attends part time and I get very confused to be honest, and he prefers being in all day.

Do you think he just dosn't get on with the teachers? Personality clash? Or do you think the class is too big for him. Does he behave better for one teacher than the other? Or do you think he just wants to be back in the town? Are you defintiely moving back, or just thinking about it?

I think lots of children are slow at changing for PE- maybe practice lots of changing with him at home.

[Fio2]

do you think he is just finding it hard to adjust? 10 to 30 children is quite a jump for a small child. maybe it has knocked his confidence a bit? Do you think they put pressure on him to change quicker than he wants to for PE? I agree with jimjams alot of kids cant dress themselves for pe and are slow.

[dilligaf]

didnt seem to have problems there but the head here tells me they had concerns. he only went there for half a term but seemed happy. the staff didnt tell me they had problems maybe they just wanted us to keep paying. he was certainly keener to go. Dont know if we could get him readmitted or find a house in the same area of town.

[dilligaf]

Definitely prefers one teacher to another behaves far better for her. we havent made any decisions yet terrified of making things worse. I have older children (grown up) and never had problems with them - all girls -new territory for us to have a boy.The less preferred teacher will have him next year as well with another teacher - jpb share again.

[Fio2]

what kind of professionals has he seen concerning his behaviour? Do you have concerns yourself? or is it just the school?

[dilligaf]

It is just school. He had swimming lessons and was fine. He is good with us no trouble at all eats well sleeps well and plays well. Stays in hotels and eats in restaurants. he is used to lots of attetion though as we are older parents and he was an unexpected blessing to begin with he had four mothers waiting on him as my three older daughters were still at home. he has seen ed pysch and paedetrician and behaviour support services

[Fio2]

and they all think he is normal? It sounds like he is just unhappy school, I dont know what to suggest but I am sure other people will

[dilligaf]

Thanks jrsmum but we are a little bit prejudiced in favour of ds. The last three days when we have dropped him off at school none of the adults in the room have spoken to ANY of the children. Seems odd to me.

[marialuisa]

Umm, they don't speak to the kids? That's weird. Have you any other concerns about the school? Is it less relaxed than his previous school? Have you thought of looking round some different schools to see if any of them would suit your DS better? I'm guessing he's still Reception age in which case he may well be struggling with the sitting down side of things. The Head of my dbro's small primary (which gets excellent results) spent 15 mins lecturing the new Reception parents about not worrying about how quickly they progress with reading etc at this stage. Similarly they look for whether a child can concentrate on anything at all, e.g. painting, playing with lego rather than assuming there's a problem just because the child doesn't want to do "work". Does your DS concentrate on anything for any length of time?

[dilligaf]

Ds is in a large class 30 kids 21 boys{}so i think that they try to keep them sitting if possible. If something interests him he will concentrate but doesnt like recording things. he has only just started to ask to draw but can write most letters in print. School want them to do joined up writing he cant do this yet and just produces scribble. Do all schools do joined up rather than print? Reading is fine because i have taught him and he asks loads of questions so he shows interest in things. thanks for your interest havent lived here long so this is a lifeline i am feeling a bit isolated.

[Miaou]

Erm, they want them to write JOINED UP at 5??????? I am a classroom assistant in a v. small school (8 pupils!!), and we have two 6 and a half yr olds (boys) who are not expected to do joined up writing because they are simply not capable of it! I'm astounded at the thought of getting 21 5 year old boys writing joined up! Is this a blanket policy for the whole class or just those who are capable of it?

I seem to be moving off the subject ... but honestly dilligaf, if this is indicative of their teaching ethos then I'm not surprised your ds is not happy at school. IMHO, I would look to move him to a school where they are more concerned about treating children as individuals and celebrating their achievements - I think they are asking far too much of 5yolds.

The fact that he can read at 5 is a huge achievement, by the way!

[dilligaf]

Thank you so much for your reassurance i was beginning to think i was neurotic. I wish i could just move him and i have even been considereding home schooling. The head told me it was Dorsets policy on writing. It even confuses him with reading because the words look so different joined up.My dh is concerned that moving him would just unsettle him more but i feel if the pressure was off he would begin to enjoy school. this is surely a case of too much too young. Most countries dont even start formal schooling till 6 or 7. Sorry to rant on but they are little for such a short time. It seems to me like taking learner drivers on the motorway before they have mastered the brakes and the gears.

[dilligaf]

Has anyone had a problem with access to drinks at school? My ds whos 5 wanted a drink and was told now is not the time for drinks so he went and fetched his drink flask to help himself. teacher took it from him and held it over her head so he couldn't reach it. He pushed her. Have been told that if this happens again he could be excluded. I agree he should not have pushed her but surely she should not have held his drink like this as it is almost teasing him. Have asked if he could have a bottle of water on his table but school don't want to do this. What do you think i should do? i have been asked to sign a pastoral care agrement which mentions the push but not the incident leading to it. I am not going to sign it until i have thought about it. Tomorrow is the last day of term and i am not sending ds until i decide what to do. gives me breathing space until september.

[dilligaf]

From the time of this message you can tell I am losing sleep. Ds is sleeping lika baby and dh is reading in bed. who'd be a mum?

[MeanBean]

Dilligaf, what's the name of the headmistress at your DS's school, is it Mrs Gradgrind??

It's Dorset's policy??? Who the hell is she kidding? I simply cannot believe that that is true, and if it is, I would raise it with my MP. What the hell is the council doing having a blanket policy on joined up writing by the age of 5? What are they trying to achieve, disaffected criminals by the time they are eight? Sorry, I'm not one for putting faith in local government or anything, but I think your DS's headmistress must be lying.

I can well understand why you are thinking of home edding, and if I lived in Dorset and found that that was their educational policy, I would too. Or I'd move. But I can't believe it is, so as a first step, I'd look around for another school - the one your DS is going to is obviously staffed by nutters, the drink episode shows a level of incompetence in dealing with a 5 year old boy that is completely inappropriate in a teacher.

You're not being neurotic here, Dilligaf, you really are dealing with a bunch of loonies. Get your DS away from them.

Oh and agree that it's an immense achievement that he can read - my DS, also 5 can't, let alone do joined up writing. And guess what - I'm not remotely worried about it, and neither is his school, because they are not lunatics in Dorset!

[dilligaf]

Thanks meanbean reassurance that i am not totally off my trolley is just what i need. I am not concerned that he cant write yet like a million other things he will do it when he is ready. I dont like the pressure on him or the idea that he is sitting at school miserable or thirsty or both. The first question he asks in a morning is "Is it a school day or a holiday?" Dont want his early experiences of school to put him off. Going to spend the holidays trying to make a decision.

[Miaou]

Dilligaf, I was stunned by your joined up writing post, and am now completely stunned by the drinks episode - how cruel is that? And holding it over his head when he was obviously thirsty - I'm speechless. If you saw a mother doing that to her child you would be concerned, wouldn't you? At our school the children have bottles of water on the tables and are allowed to drink from them (and visit the toilet) whenever they need to. This was specifically praised in our inspection last month. How can a five year old concentrate if they are thirsty?

Sorry dilligaf, but IIWY I would spend the summer arranging alternative schooling for next year. His comments to you show that he is not happy. If you are happy to home school him , even if just for a bit, I would do it. I would also get in touch with the education dept. regarding their policy on writing (and drinking, for that matter) - I am sure you will find it is up to the individual school.

I have often thought about you since your first post - I 'm so upset about it on your and your son's behalf!! Please keep us up to date with what you decide to do.

[dilligaf]

thanks for all your kind thoughts Miaou. Made me cry i am so wound up and unsure what to do for the best.Dh has just read your message as well and has said we can do what we feel is right maybe homeschool for a while and move so we we have more choice of school At least its the holidays now and we can take some time to decide.

[agy]

God, that teacher needs to grow up! That is so cruel about the drink! Could you speak to someone at Ofsted, for the sake of the other children as much as your own. And re-type the pastoral care agreement to include your little boy's side of the incident. And try to get him moved if poss. This must be so worrying for you. Good luck.

[Twinkie]

I know I will be nailed for this:

I really think you should try and speak to the school and perhaps get their education policy in writing - I also think that maybe you need to speak to the school with regards to his behaviour - if he is fine with everything else it just seems that he is having problems with the schools boundaries and I believe that changing school may be a help but what if its not, what if he doesn't like that the alternative are you going to keep changing??

Maybe having 3 elder sisters and elder parents and being one of only 10 in his class has led him to believe that he is going to be the centre of attention and he is just finding it hard to fit in - but you have to give it a chance I feel.

As for the drink thing - what if he was trying to tkae the drink from the teacher and she held it up so she could try and explain to him that he could not just go and help himself - can you imagine 30 school children deciding that they want to go and get their drinks out at any time of the day and a teacher having to control this and try and teach??

I know its hard to be objective here but I think he is running rings around you and you are falling for it.

[dilligaf]

I think there is an element of truth in what Twinkie says. He is the centre of our world but i think most children are to their parents. If he was allowed a drink on his desk there wouldnt be a problem with kids getting drinks. I am going to add my side to the pastoral agreement as i think the background is quite relevant. the question of changing schools is difficult thats why we want to take time before rushing into anything. still not happy about holding drink up if someone did that to a dog thed get bitten and everyone wd say what did they expect. I wouldnt leave him with a babysitter who did that to him. I am sure it is difficult coping with 30 kids but it is their proffession If it was easy you wouldnt need 4 years training. On the whole my experience of teachers has been good.

[Twinkie]

But he is not allowed a drink on his desk and he neeeds to understand that going toget them at will is not right either.

And he is not a dog - he is a child who should know that oushing a tteacher is wrong - he is the centre of your world but he needs to learn that there are rules and regualtions and I don;t hink he will unless you sit down and tell him he has to adhere to these rules - I can honestly see a lifetime of trouble ahead of you if you let him get away with this one!!

I am sorry for saying this but I look at the teeneagers around us and what they are doing and how they treat people and there are always excuses - when I see the problem being is that they need to understand that they have to obey teachers and professionals (unless they are truely bad which I really don't think your sons teacher is) and these teenagers and professionals need the back up of parents - he is seeing you fighting against the school and so in his mind it is fine for him to behave like this and you will go round and round in circles.

I am probably not very popular with regards to my views on somethings and I think some people think I am quite harsh but your son needs to have a social and moral responsibility and this includes behaving even if he does not like the rules.

And Jrsmum - I hope to god that you don't repeat that kind of stuff about hs teacher in his hearing - if he thinks you have that kind of view of his teacher how is he going to understand that he needs to behave??

[dilligaf]

I have brought up 3 other children eldest is an accountant middle is married and the third is an air traffic controller in the Raf. None of them are delinquints. He has clear boundaries at home and is very well behaved when out. We just took him to Disney and he was extremely well behaved. We never undermine the school in his hearing and try to be suportive of them I am not the only person to have had problems with the teacher. Maybe its a bit of a mismatch as he seems to be fine with the other teacher and when they have had substitutes.Hes not perfect and I know he can be difficult. thats why i started this thread just to get an overview and see if others thought i was being too touchy.

[jimmychoos]

dilligaf - I would investigate what concerns the other school had about your ds if I were you. I don't think it's acceptable that they have obv passed something on to the new school you are not aware of that has not been raised with you. i agree your ds could be playing up in the new bigger class - it could also be that the new school have labelled him as a result of what they have been told....could be six of one and half a dozen of the other IYKWIM.

The school's drinks policy sounds totally old fashioned - most primary schools here let the children have water on their desks. Research shows that brain function/ concentration is impaired with dehydration - so this actually aids learning. I'd take this up with the school of you decide to keep your son there.