Bloody private schools

[leakysaucepan]

Sorry for the ranty headline. It's just that our school has lost 3 NQTs to top private schools this year. Obviously we're doing too good a job of training them, and not able to do a good enough job of paying them!

It seems to me the private sector should compensate the state sector for the talent it strips from it's hard working but vulnerable neighbours.

[Abitofaproblem]

Are they actually getting a lot more pay at the privates, considering that they will most likely have to lead more extra curricular and have longer hours? Or is it more about their current working environment or the school SLT team?

[dramaqueen]

Or perhaps those who use private schools should be able to take elsewhere the amount they are saving the state sector .....

[LIZS]

Given the insecurity of funding in state schools you can hardly blame them. However grass is always greener and even those jobs are not as secure as they might have once been. Maybe there should be a condition of funding for qualifications that they work for so long in state sector.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

They don't have longer hours and many state school teachers give up A LOT of time for extra curricular activities. They have more money per head and can (and do) pay more. That and the associated paperwork isn't as nonsensical.
Obviously some may just pay the same rate but there are other compensations (longer holidays).

[ArabellaRockerfella]

It's not just the pay that entices teachers. Its the lack of SATs and silly new initiatives and changes to the curriculum every year. Smaller class sizes mean less paperwork and more teaching. And behaviour and parental involvement and support for teachers is often better. Better resources also make the job easier.
It is frustrating for those of us who can't afford private education for our children to lose amazing teachers time and again.

[happygardening]

I automatic assumption that the private sector pays more is erroneous. I suspect money is not the only reason why staff move to either sectors.
Secondly staff are free to apply for what ever job they fancy, if they're unhappy in their job, they'll move. It is their decision to move I don't think you can place the blame at the doorstep of the independent sector.

[missyB1]

This isn't about the private schools doing anything wrong or the NQTs doing anything wrong, they've gone somewhere they believe they will be happier working, and I don't blame them. I would however blame the government who have crapped all over the public sector and made teachers jobs even harder.
Healthcare workers are leaving too.

[happygardening]

Those in the boarding sector are frequently working much longer hours, it may not be an intense as in the day sector with shortish intense burst of work but HM's for example are available 24/7 for both pupils and parents, younger staff often live on site/in boarding houses and are expected to participate in clubs, extra curricular activities, pastoral care, and other activities.
I know at least four young teachers who left full boarding schools and return to day schools in both sectors as they were fed up with a lovely limited social life and working 7 days a week.

[PhilODox]

Whenever there's a public sector bashing thread, people are always told they wouldn't last two minutes in the private sector...

Also, those NQTs have paid for their own training- you have to pay fees for university just like any other undergraduate or postgraduate course.

[Piratesandpants]

Teachers' main motivation is not usually money - otherwise they would probably choose another profession. They are moving to private schools because, having evaluated the pressures and perks of state vs private, they prefer private. In no other profession would a person be criticised for leaving a job - it is their right you know Your logic is staggering. Teaching in state schools needs to be made more attractive.

[user1491148352]

I think the days if indentured labour are over

Should we tie other professionals - doctors, lawyers, engineers, nurses, - to the public sector for the duration? Stop them from leaving the country? Stop them leaving their careers to have a family/ take up a job in a different field?

Also since graduates now fund their own education I think they should be free to take a job where ever they want.

[happygardening]

Many undertaking teacher training receive tax free bursaries which for some subjects are pretty substantial should these teachers commit to a certain period in the state sector? Genuine question.

[kesstrel]

Arabella Private school students do take GCSEs and A-levels. The changes to the curriculum have to be dealt with in private schools just as they do in state schools.

[PhilODox]

Kesstrel- some do, but others have stuck with igcse and IB.

[PhilODox]

Happy- you raise an interesting point. I thought that in the past there were requirements (in health disciplines at least) to do so many years in NHS before moving on?

[LondonMum8]

Wow, people can still choose to work in private sector? A bloody outrage! Let's nationalise everything and have people making over the minimum wage just hand their stuff over to the state!

[teacher54321]

I work in a private school because there my non core subject (music) is valued and appreciated. (I know there are state schools where that is the case but have seen first hand the lack of support in various schools and decided that wasn't for me) In my career in various capacities I've worked in a grammar school, three comprehensive schools, a boarding school and four independent day schools. I think I have the right to choose where I work as much as anyone else does!

[wickerlampshade]

I thought that in the past there were requirements (in health disciplines at least) to do so many years in NHS before moving on?

Always a sign of a system that treats its staff well if they have to force them to stay! Any introduction of that would see junior doctors only working the hours they are paid for, and if they did that the NHS would collapse in about 24 hours.

[PhilODox]

Wicker- aren't they already tied in to do FY1 and FY2 ??

[BobbinThreadbare123]

When I was a teacher, I worked in state and private. The salary was comparable. The stress was not; the state sector was so panicked with Ofsted and league tables compared to the private (not that it doesn't have an inspectorate etc). We had a longer day in private but a longer lunchtime so I actually got to eat and run a club in the time, and not have to stay long after the bell. I sadly went back to state (geographical move) and left very soon after, out of education altogether. The private sector is attractive because they're still offering minority subjects, rounded sport, trips and clubs and the behaviour is better (not always, obvs).

[happygardening]

I understand junior doctors have to complete at least 1 year at the end of their five yr training. Medical friends that I know say are not attracted to private medicine if they were leave the NHS then they would look at drugs companies and most would have completed more than a year post finishing their training.
Out of interest are these teachers leaving having finished the training but not done a yr as NQT in the state sector or have they done their NQT year in the state sector and now going to the independent sector? If the former and they've been on a substantial tax free bursary then I think there should be some sort obligation to stay in the state sector for a year if the latter then they're entitled to go where they please.

[DriftingDreamer]

Mmm- I can see why you are frustrated op.
Maybe going for an easier life....

[peteneras]

"Wow, people can still choose to work in private sector? A bloody outrage! Let's nationalise everything and have people making over the minimum wage just hand their stuff over to the state!"

Wow! There's just one such happy and perfect place on earth to live in with such a setup. Go to live in North Korea!

[MrsGuyOfGisbo]

The other way to look at it is that those teachers may have decided to leave the profession entirely if there were not an option to teach outside the public sector. A school I taught in last year lost most of its math teachers to indies, they could have got job outside teaching and would have done so. So its not the indies causing the problem - but the environment they are leaving.

[happygardening]

Is there less paperwork in the independent sector? Less interference in exams? Less anxiety around inspections?
Paying parents are notoriously fickle, many are buying into the whole package, exam results manicured lawns, teachers available 24/7, I once discussed what set my DS's was in for physics (with a view to moving him down) the teacher got the wrong end of the stick and became exceedingly nervous, I've watched other teachers being harangued over marks for exams/prep. A friend is an HM he averages 100 emails a day from parents asking questions as diverse as when is the end of term (it's on the school website) to why did Henry not get a A * in his math prep or my husband has run off with the gym instructor. All expect an instant reply and email again if they haven't had it with a few hours.
So perhaps different pressures in the independent sector.