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Ok 4 day week threat or possible?

(71 Posts)
3asAbird Sat 25-Feb-17 23:57:31

At first I thought nutter seeking publicity about school cuts.

We live in Bristol but heard same from some school in Cheshire / Sussex last 6months

Did wonder is it legal?
Would working parents put up with 4 day week or compulsory parental contribution?

Today a teacher told me due to academies aft an academy can structure their school however they see fit.

So set their own hours
Decide on structure of school day.

I assume if 4 day week they be longer days or kids in neighbouring county or different academy chain be getting more education how the heck is this fair?

HarryTheHippo Sun 26-Feb-17 00:00:30

Oh I'd love this. My kids had a staff training day friday and 3 days over the weekend seems just right for relaxing and getting things done without it being a rush.

I hearing Scotland some areas finish lunchtimes on Friday but I assume they have longer days in mon-thu to make up for it.

Astro55 Sun 26-Feb-17 00:03:59

It doesn't need to be fair - it needs to be paid for.

There are so many kidsto provide for now - over crowding - and those who need extra support without extra cost

Years ago school taught basic English and maths

No it's science religion PE computers social and emotional needs - all taking a toll on the basics

If they cut the day - it won't be the basics the children miss out on bit the in stuff

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 11:43:50

The suggestion I saw didn't have kids with an extra day off, they were supposed to spend the time at home working through online resources or similar, thus saving the school money in heating, lighting, food preparation and so on.
I wonder if the teachers could deliver lessons by Skype or whatever software online schools use.

2014newme Sun 26-Feb-17 12:37:26

Won't happen. It would mean cutting teacher pay by 20%.
It's a threat but a ridiculous one

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 12:46:17

Not necessarily, if teachers are still teaching, but remotely instead of in a classroom.

2014newme Sun 26-Feb-17 12:50:13

Well then where is the cost saving? Lights will still be on in school fir the teachers. May be able to do without cleaning one day a week.
Doesn't really produce a saving.
That's why it's an empty threat

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 12:52:05

I don't think online schools have empty classrooms for each of their teachers to work in?

2014newme Sun 26-Feb-17 12:53:59

Where is the cost saving of cutting to four days per week if teachers and school staff still work 5 days per week? Staff are one of the biggest expenses of a school. That's where savings would come.

chosenone Sun 26-Feb-17 12:54:33

I know Cheshire East issued this and our head (neighbouring county) said it was PR to try and get Parents to care more about the ridiculous cuts to schools. A 4 day week would hit working parents hard whereas the lack of TAs, unqualified staff, resources etc is less visible.

2014newme Sun 26-Feb-17 12:56:07

Exactly it's an empty threat because they won't cut teachers to part time.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 12:59:47

Where is the cost saving of cutting to four days per week if teachers and school staff still work 5 days per week?

Because while staffing is the biggest cost to a school, the other stuff isn't free?

2014newme Sun 26-Feb-17 13:04:31

So what is "other stuff" that would produce a cost saving?
And why on earth would teachers paid for the fifth day? They wouldn't! Which is why it won't happen

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 13:05:08

they won't cut teachers to part time

They're already making teachers redundant, and lots of teachers are already going part time to cope with ridiculous workload demands. Don't assume that this would be wildly unpopular among teachers.

2014newme Sun 26-Feb-17 13:08:25

Compulsory 4 day week would be unpopular and teaching unions would oppose and likely strike.
More reasons why it will not happen.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 13:09:15

So what is "other stuff" that would produce a cost saving?

Cleaning, heating, electricity, maintenance, wear and tear, lunch staff, support staff...sports facilities and so on could be hired out....I dunno, I'm not a business manager.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 13:12:41

Here's a school in the US talking about how a 4 day week saves them money:

They operate a longer school day to make up the hours.

chosenone Sun 26-Feb-17 13:22:11

I'm not sure the Unions would oppose it as it exposes the reality of the cuts and that needs to get out to Joe Public. Parents, as Stakeholders need to know how their childs education is being affected. If a goood education can be achieved in 4 days and not 5 so be it.

roundaboutthetown Sun 26-Feb-17 14:22:24

Better to be paid for 4 days a week than be made redundant, surely? Would give more time for all the stuff teachers have to do when not face to face in the classroom.

admission Sun 26-Feb-17 15:18:34

There are differences between academies and maintained schools in what hours are to be worked by teachers.
In a maintained school, a full time teacher has to be available for work, 195 days of the year of which 190 are when pupils are present, that does not specify what hours are to be worked. Also in what is called the School Teachers pay and conditions document (STPCD) it states that the hours are to be 1265 hours per year.
In theory Academies can set their own hours and times but many still use the STPCD conditions.
So whilst there is no question that a school could operate just 4 days a week they would have to be extended hours and I cannot see how that saves much money. Only by reducing teachers' contracts from FT to say 0.8 will there be significant savings and then you run into issues about the time in front of classes and just what hours teaching is happening.
The other issue for me is the problem of what parents do. Having a 4 day school week means that they have to make alternate arrangements for looking after pupils for the other day. That is just not practical, no matter how popular it might be with the pupils themselves. It portrays a lack of understanding by the schools to everybody else's practical issues of running such a program.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Feb-17 15:21:05

If the idea is deeply unpopular with parents then perhaps they could start protesting about the school funding cuts to the government and their MPs?

Schools not having enough money to run for 5 days a week isn't something that schools can fix.

roundaboutthetown Sun 26-Feb-17 16:29:11

admission - it shows no such lack of understanding whatsoever. Most teachers and headteachers are also parents with childcare issues. You could say the government shows a complete lack of understanding of schools and school finances, though. Cutting back funding inevitably means cutting back on services. Cutting back funding whilst simultaneously causing exam and curriculum chaos with rushed and botched changes is even more deeply stupid.

Rosieposy4 Mon 27-Feb-17 21:04:37

It is a worrying thought.
The teachers might teach full time, and on each day you have 4 out of the five main school years in , so the kids do 4 days, ( eg y 7 do mon-thurs, y 8 tues-fri, y 9 wed, thurs, fri, mon, etc but staff do 5, means you can get away with a lot less teachers!

JamDonutsRule Tue 28-Feb-17 21:03:05

Some underfunded schools cut costs by doing very short days with only 20min for lunch, so they finish at 2pm.

It's creating an even more two tier private / state system as well - underfunded state schools will get 27.5hr weeks while some private schools have 51hr weeks. Obviously those are at the two extreme ends of the spectrum, but the point still stands.

spanieleyes Tue 28-Feb-17 21:38:53

Some schools have considered children being in for 4 days and teachers for 4.5. The extra halfday would be for PPA, INSET etc. This would save 5 days when the school could be completely empty and the costs of PPA cover too as this would take place when the children weren't there. This would be balanced by longer hours for all during the 4 days.

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