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2 Year Degrees - £13.5K a year

(24 Posts)
Allthebestnamesareused Fri 24-Feb-17 18:52:07

Will they be able to cover all the material required? Will they therefore be seen as a lesser degree?

titchy Fri 24-Feb-17 19:03:10

Same content but a year will be a full year, so teaching will happen over summer as well to fit it all in which doesn't happen at the moment.

Suspect private providers will dominate in this arena.

Allthebestnamesareused Fri 24-Feb-17 19:12:20

I bet the lecturers will love the all year round teaching!

MandMand Fri 24-Feb-17 19:20:19

As titchy said, there will be an extra Summer Semester, so instead of studying for 2 semesters a year over 3 years, students can study 3 semesters a year over 2 years, thereby covering the same amount of content but saving a year's worth of living expenses/loss of earnings.

I expect it will be more popular for vocational degrees such as law or accounting, and perhaps some engineering disciplines, where students are more interested in getting qualified as quickly as possible and out to work rather than having the "University Experience".

I also suspect that they are more likely to be offered by the ex-poly/non-research focused institutions, and therefore might be seen as less prestigious than a traditional three year degree from a Russell Group/Redbrick type University.

It depends if there is a demand from employers for these kind of "fast track" qualifications I suppose. The students obviously won't have time to do the kind of summer placements and internships that three year degrees with long summer breaks allow.

Allthebestnamesareused Fri 24-Feb-17 19:28:19

As a solicitor myself I can see the attraction of a 2 year degree, one year LPC followed by the training contract as it would cut it down from a 6 year process to a 5 year process instead.

It would be quite full on though unless they examine the degree in a modular way the same as they do for LPC now rather than end of year as in old style Law Society Finals.

I have one DS through uni, and one at uni and another in year 10 so I will be interested to see whether they are available for my youngest and at what unis/institutions.

titchy Fri 24-Feb-17 19:38:00

I bet the lecturers will love the all year round teaching!

That's why research intensives won't do them. If they do watch out for the quality of summer teaching....

user7214743615 Fri 24-Feb-17 19:57:44

That's why research intensives won't do them.

Yes. It would be impossible to recruit and retain academic staff at top universities with summer teaching (in combination with Brexit, reduced research funding, TEF, REF etc).

This is yet one more move to (re)create a tiered HE system. I find it very hard to believe that 2 year degrees will get to the same level as 3 year degrees - it's not just the content, but the depth and maturity that changes over the 3 year period - and thus the 2 year degrees are very likely to be viewed as less prestigious.

BTW they certainly would be unlikely to be valued internationally (relative to 3-4 year degrees elsewhere in the world) but I guess that fits with the fact that it's going to be much harder for British people to work abroad.

firsttimemum15 Fri 24-Feb-17 20:00:29

I doubt theyd be undervalued tbh.
Negative Nancys on here

user7214743615 Fri 24-Feb-17 20:14:44

Negative Nancys? Or people who are knowledge about higher education in an international context, and have seen how this works elsewhere?

firsttimemum15 Fri 24-Feb-17 20:58:47

Just an observation.

I, too have a background in this.

titchy Fri 24-Feb-17 21:10:45

What's your background firsttimemum? Genuine question not being antagonistic!

GnomeDePlume Sat 25-Feb-17 17:54:56

I can see them having a place where the degree is only a stepping stone and professional qualification is more important.

Badbadbunny Sat 25-Feb-17 19:08:45

I can see them having a place where the degree is only a stepping stone and professional qualification is more important.

Indeed, as mentioned above re solicitors. I'm an accountant and think they'd also be very popular for those aiming to become an accountant, where likewise the "real" studying etc for the profession comes after graduating in another 3/4 years of professional accountancy exams. For many, the quicker the degree can be achieved, the better.

firsttimemum15 Sat 25-Feb-17 20:39:12

In some ways HE is one of our biggest exports. These degrees could be popular with overseas students who want a UK degree but then who just want to go back home and work.

WP students who would otherwise be put off may be attracted by these. Uf the modules are the same there is no reason why the qualifications should be any less valued by employers.
In some ways a 2.1 from a 2 year qual could be looked on more favourably as arguably it is more intensive.

However it remains to be seen which institutions will offer these and how long they take to come on board. It has taken years to get L7 apprenticeships established properly in HE

user7214743615 Sat 25-Feb-17 21:20:23

If the modules are the same there is no reason why the qualifications should be any less valued by employers.

I would think in many cases the modules won't be the same, though.

It would be a logistical nightmare for a university to try to deliver 2 and 3 year programmes simultaneously in STEM subjects for which linear progression through modules is essential.

A student on the 3 year course would take 4 modules in 2 semesters, each year.

A student on the 2 year course would need to take 12 modules in each year. So the first half of the year 2 modules would have to delivered in the summer session, then the second half of year 2 in the Autumn semester, the first half of year 3 in the Spring semester and the second half of year 3 in the Summer semester. The last three would be out of phase with the 3 year programme, meaning that modules would either have to delivered several times per year (very expensive), or you would have to drop the requirement linear progression through modules (which would be quite difficult for many key modules in STEM subjects).

As I and other academics wrote above, it would seem more likely that research intensive universities stick principally to 3 year courses with other (private) institutions specialising in 2 year courses in particular subjects.

leghoul Sat 25-Feb-17 21:29:51

A few places have offered 2 year degrees in certain subjects for a long time now - eg University of Buckingham, but also newer degree providers. I think it's attractive as it cuts out a year's cost of living from the process. Also agree just not feasible with some subjects,. Lecturers etc have breaks but at different times of year I think depending on intakes (similar to places that have a January start and work through the summer now on regular courses)

firsttimemum15 Sat 25-Feb-17 22:14:09

User there is more to HE than just STEM subjects though.

user7214743615 Sun 26-Feb-17 09:11:43

User there is more to HE than just STEM subjects though.

That is an obvious statement.

I commented about STEM because it is what I know. Colleagues from other disciplines also do not believe that 2 year degrees will get to the same depth as 3 year degrees. Colleagues from abroad laugh at the idea that a 2 year degree would be recognised as equivalent internationally.

The government is introducing these degrees so that private providers can enter the market and make a profit. Private providers will be able to pick and choose what subjects they offer - so they won't have to offer expensive STEM degrees but will offer subjects that are cheaper and easier to teach in a concentrated way. It is very unlikely that the new institutions will have the same value as the established (research intensive) universities - and pretending otherwise cheats parents and students.

Lecturers etc have breaks but at different times of year I think depending on intakes.

But again this is virtually impossible in a leading research intensive university, if it is to stay competitive with the rest of the world. Teaching through the summer period would be utterly disastrous for research in many fields, as the summer is the main period for working with international collaborators on research projects.

bojorojo Sun 26-Feb-17 09:53:18

Buckingham University already does! It is their usp!

titchy Sun 26-Feb-17 10:29:42

All institutions have been able to offer two year degrees - that hasn't changed!

What has changed is that the fee loan entitlement has increased so providers can now charge up to £12.5k a year and the SLC will provide a loan for that much.

Buckingham students can only access fee loans of £6000 a year so they have to find the rest of the fees themselves.

titchy Sun 26-Feb-17 10:31:36

Sorry, to clarify, providers with an Access agreement will now be able to charge £12.5k and students will get a loan for that full amount. Buckingham has no Access agreement so the maximum they can borrow is £6k.

bojorojo Sun 26-Feb-17 10:34:16

It is a private university so I guess their agreements are different. Personally I think 2 years diminishes from the student experience - who would want to spend 2 years in Buckingham anyway??? (I am a local!)

ScrapThatThen Sun 26-Feb-17 10:40:07

Accelerated vocational degrees over 2 years are already around - such as Occupational Therapy. Makes sense, as many people doing them already have first degrees, and its the qualification/registration to practice that they are after.

firsttimemum15 Sun 26-Feb-17 12:49:25

Exactly scrap that then

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