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DfE wanted country of birth data to stop schooling children of illegal immigrants

(31 Posts)
noblegiraffe Thu 01-Dec-16 21:59:17

An apology. When people on here were claiming that schools were collecting nationality data because of some sort of racist purge, I argued that the data was most likely needed for research into effective school interventions.

Apparently the government are in fact, actually, a fucking disgrace. I'm appalled. And to those I disagreed with: I'm sorry, you were right. And I'm sorry you were right.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38165395

noblegiraffe Fri 02-Dec-16 18:26:51

This thread made Buzzfeed!

www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/heres-why-people-are-concerned-schools-want-to-know-where-pu?bftwuk&utm_term=.iqnEZKaAM#.gj6OvR9lj

It suggests at the bottom of the article that any parent who submitted the data can request that it be deleted from the census, but the link is broken. Does anyone have further info on this?

ReallyTired Fri 02-Dec-16 12:07:02

If the shitty schools get filled with the children of illegal immgrants they will quickly stop being shitty schools. Often the children of illegal immigrants want to get on and do well in life.

Either a child has the right to remain in the UK or they don't. If a child doesn't have the right to remain in the UK then they should be deported. If they are appealing the right to remain then they should be treated like any other child until the decision is made to deport them.

Children should not be punished for the sins of their parents. I pretty certain it says that somewhere in the bible.

biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-20.htm

Punishing the children of illegal immigrants for the sins of their parents is incompatible with christian teaching.

cousinella Fri 02-Dec-16 10:29:24

How very sinister and incompetent of May. shock

It is despicable that May tries to 'make good' her professional failings in the HO by getting at illegal immigrants via vulnerable children. She has no right to call herself a Christian.

Well done N. Morgan for refusing this outrageous proposal.

Nonreplicable Fri 02-Dec-16 10:12:37

Aside from how disgusting an approach this is, I really do not see how it achieves very much at all.
Logically, illegal immigrants tend to be young adults who either have no children or leave their children behind at home and send their earnings back. As an illegal immigrant, I imagine children would be a massive burden for all sorts of reasons.
So what does this policy really address?

IrenetheQuaint Fri 02-Dec-16 08:49:25

I don't think blaming DfE for this in your headline is fair; it's clear from the article that this was 100% a Home Office 'bright idea' which DfE fought back strongly against.

But of course I agree with the general point that it is a bloody disgraceful policy.

titchy Fri 02-Dec-16 08:44:36

shock Shocking, truly shocking. TM is becoming a caricature.

user7214743615 Fri 02-Dec-16 08:06:31

Why should his daughter (who is a British citizen, born in the uk to a British mother) be denied access to decent schools?

She wouldn't have been. But kids with both parents (or mother, no father around) illegal immigrants would have been.

JunosRevenge Fri 02-Dec-16 00:33:50

I've just refused to fill in census info on my DS's school form.

Ethnic registration by stealth. Bastards.

PausingFlatly Fri 02-Dec-16 00:30:42

Yep, looks like it was that one, Chaotica.

Your response is pretty much what the DfE said.

And not all UK citizens have passports, so they'd be stuffed too.

ReallyTired Fri 02-Dec-16 00:30:18

The violent boyfriend was an illegal immigrant.

ReallyTired Fri 02-Dec-16 00:29:33

I think that the proposals are daft. Illegal immigrants should be deported. If the children of illegal immigrants have a right to stay then admissions to schools should follow the normal criteria. If the children of illegal immigrants have no right to remain then they should be deported alongside their parents.

I know someone whose ex boyfriend was deported after a very nasty crime. He has never been allowed access to his daughter. Why should his daughter (who is a British citizen, born in the uk to a British mother) be denied access to decent schools? What should happen to children who are taken into care who have a parent who is an illegal immigrant?

Nicky Morgan all is forgiven.

PausingFlatly Fri 02-Dec-16 00:16:44

Sorry, mucked up italics.

Chaotica Fri 02-Dec-16 00:16:13

Horrifying. And not just about agreeing with Nicky Morgan.

Wasn't there an unworkable idea where they would ask for the passport of children allocated places, and then deny the place to the child once they had found out that they shouldn't be in the country? Thereby sending the schools allocation system into chaos as well as creating ghettos. It's not just grossly unfair on the children in question, it doesn't even work.

PausingFlatly Fri 02-Dec-16 00:15:47

DfE said:
"Aside from the impact on ordinary parents, there is also a risk to children's safety.
^"Introducing these checks could lead to some children not being registered for school because of real or perceived fear of deportation.
"Leaving aside the fact that these young people will not receive a decent education, this is a safeguarding risk - we have real concerns that children out of school may be at greater risk of radicalisation or other harms."^

So yes, DfE anticipated this would cause children to be completely outside the education system.

AndNowItsSeven Fri 02-Dec-16 00:10:46

I read that story as the children having the lowest priority in the parental choice of school , not that they wouldn't get a school place at all. Have I misunderstood?

GiddyOnZackHunt Fri 02-Dec-16 00:08:02

It's because the government have no idea how many people are here illegally (obviously) and are scrabbling to meet their own targets.

There'll be posters in schools suggesting children ask their parents
to go home next. Much like May's travelling adverts of a few years ago. She's some mad throwback to Edwardian times. Cheerfully implementing Conservatism whilst expecting those at the bottom of the pile to stick their hands up for extra punishment.

RustyBear Thu 01-Dec-16 23:59:38

ILoveOnionRings - the box to record nationality and passport number has been in SIMS since at least version 7.78, it's just never been used before, at least not in our school. You can see it on these instructions for that version, which are dated 2006.
wokinghamdirect.net/EasysiteWeb/getresource.axd?AssetID=194878&type=full&servicetype=Attachment

PausingFlatly Thu 01-Dec-16 23:39:14

<reaches for smelling salts about agreeing with Nicky Morgan>

PausingFlatly Thu 01-Dec-16 23:37:33

TBF, it makes a kind of sense if you don't think about it for more than 10 seconds.

After 10 seconds, when your brain kicks in...

Let's see, if we decided to create a subpopulation of people who are impoverished, alienated, have no outside social connections, have no buy-in to a stable or peaceful UK, little access to the justice or child protection systems, who get their "education" from whoever or whatever they could find on the internet, a population of whose existence we might be unaware, never mind their whereabouts: if we wanted to create that, how would we do it?

Oh, I know...

PausingFlatly Thu 01-Dec-16 23:32:22

Tcha, you exaggerate.

They might have been allowed to congregate in sink schools already under pressure from poor performance.

Only the ones whose parents weren't scared off from sending them to school at all, of course. But who cares about those?

squishysquirmy Thu 01-Dec-16 22:59:03

That's appalling!
If it hadn't been leaked, would we have ever found about it?

SusanTrinder Thu 01-Dec-16 22:57:52

The kids in my class are currently dutifully handing in their forms.

I want to lose each and every one.

noblegiraffe Thu 01-Dec-16 22:50:53

The Home Office presumably have their own records they could cross reference.

The timeline seems to be:
Home office demand that schools perform passport checks before schools admissions in order to boot out kids of illegal immigrants
DfE say no
Home office and DfE agree nationality data will be collected instead
National outcry
Home Office banned from accessing nationality data

I'm guessing that they would have found a use for it somehow.

ILoveOnionRings Thu 01-Dec-16 22:47:52

I complete our school census and there is a 'box' to record passport details which was not there at the last census in May.

exLtEveDallas Thu 01-Dec-16 22:44:47

But the kids were still in school by then, so what would the point be? Unless you are suggesting that the child would lose their school place as soon as the info was given.

And actually, all the data collection asks is "Country of Birth" and "Nationality" so again, how does a school (or Home office) tell from those two words who is the child of an illegal immigrant?

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