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Plan for 18 year olds to become teachers with on the job training

(290 Posts)
noblegiraffe Sat 20-Aug-16 12:26:38

So the government's bright idea to solve teacher shortages is not to make any effort to retain the teachers who are leaving in droves, but to allow people to train as teachers on the job with only A-levels.

Because acquiring a solid expertise in your subject first is totally overrated.

CloudedPensive Sat 20-Aug-16 12:28:49


VikingVolva Sat 20-Aug-16 12:29:41

The article says that this is an initiative coming from head teachers who are going to ask the government to consider it.

I though those involved in education wanted more weight attached to voices from within schools and less politician-created initiatives. This seems to fit that preference.

mouldycheesefan Sat 20-Aug-16 12:30:35

It says it's head teachers who have suggested it.
It doesn't say how long the apprencticeship is for.
Not enough detail to comment.

Anasnake Sat 20-Aug-16 12:32:37

It'll all boil down to money - no degree = cheaper teachers. Experienced (expensive) teachers are already being pushed out in favour of cheap NQTs.

GinandJag Sat 20-Aug-16 12:33:11

It also says they would be working towards degrees, thereby keeping teaching as a graduate-only profession.

As others have said, it's a proposal for government consideration.

GinandJag Sat 20-Aug-16 12:34:31

I had two permanent teaching posts in my 50s. Experience is valued too.

BoneyBackJefferson Sat 20-Aug-16 12:42:44


Of the headteachers mentioned (from what I have read) one is the CEO of an academy the other states that he has been approached by almost 50 schools which frankly is bog all.


The difference seems to be that the schools will pay for the degrees, not that they won't have one.

either way it plays straight in to the hands of those idiots that misquote 'those that can' etc. and that teachers need 'real world' experience.

It is frankly a fucking stupid idea.

DomesticAnarchist Sat 20-Aug-16 12:52:58


First they wanted to attract 'the best graduates' to put onto post-grad courses (which they wanted to make equivalent to masters level).

Then they thought teachers are rubbish, let's get ex-forces in (of which most decided they'd rather go back to actual war-zones). [anecdotal, sorry]

Then they tried taking graduates without PGCEs and sticking them straight into the classroom (with minimal support in many cases) to 'learn on the job'.

And now they're saying any life experience and subject knowledge is entirely surplus to requirement, and sticking 18 year olds in to 'learn on the job'?

Is this supposed to improve outcomes? Isn't that just turning school into glorified babysitting?

DomesticAnarchist Sat 20-Aug-16 12:56:45

And if it's an apprenticeship, along-side a degree. For secondary that'll have to be a subject degree (unless they're planning on a new undergrad teaching degree).

So they'd be part time teachers, doing part time degrees which will take, what, 6 years to do? Then will there be a post-grad teaching thing on top? Or are these people expected to do all their uni work, teaching work, and teaching quali assignments at the same time (and have the healthy social life of an 18 year old, I hope)?

MrSlant Sat 20-Aug-16 13:03:55

It's not dissimilar to how nurses and other HCP's are trained. Radiographers for example, are 'hands on' x-raying patients (with supervision) in the first term of their training. The degree is hard work with very little holidays compared to students doing less vocational subjects and they are expected to work on their studies around working in the hospital.

I'm not saying it's a good idea, although I know some teens who it would suit really well but there are similar forms of training out there.

Theimpossiblegirl Sat 20-Aug-16 13:07:12

I wouldn't be happy about someone with no life experience teaching my kids. It's not just the subject knowledge, I don't think many 18 year olds would have the skills and knowledge to deal with the pastoral side.

noblegiraffe Sat 20-Aug-16 14:06:41

Teacher training was all-consuming, I can't imagine if I'd gone into a classroom not only not confident of my teaching abilities but also not confident of my subject-knowledge.

mouldycheesefan Sat 20-Aug-16 14:40:14

Apprenticeships take years. So nobody would be teaching a class at 18.
If only 50 schools are interested, fine, they can pilot it. So it doesn't matter if "bog all" schools want to do it🙄 nobody is being forced to.

noblegiraffe Sat 20-Aug-16 14:55:47

So nobody would be teaching a class at 18.

What would they be doing then, that would make the training 'on the job' and different to a teacher training degree?

BoneyBackJefferson Sat 20-Aug-16 15:04:15


It won't matter to the government because they will do the same as they are doing for teach first (or whatever its called currently). They will continue to restrict the amount of students that universities can take on PGCEs and QTS courses until this is the only way to get in to teaching.

And it does matter that only 50 schools are interested as it shows that either the majority of schools are not interested or they have only asked those that will support the system that they want to put in place.

Just5minswithDacre Sat 20-Aug-16 15:14:55

We still (just about) have non-graduate teachers in the workforce, don't we? (Teacher training college diploma-holders.) Or have the last cohort of them just retired? It's not that shocking an idea, precedent-wise.

Just5minswithDacre Sat 20-Aug-16 15:16:51

Which isn't to say that that it's the best idea, but at least they would BE trained.

I'm more worried about the completely untrained, non-teacher teachers currently employed by academies.

Just5minswithDacre Sat 20-Aug-16 15:18:11

Or the thousands of current teachers who got into BEds in the 90s with two 'E's at A level, come to that.

HopeClearwater Sat 20-Aug-16 15:22:36

Or the thousands of current teachers who got into BEds in the 90s with two 'E's at A level, come to that.

... quite a lot of whom are now completely rubbish head teachers who are too young and frankly too dim to cope with the many demands of the job and instead put unreasonable amounts of pressure on their teaching staff.

Just5minswithDacre Sat 20-Aug-16 15:28:14

That explains a lot.

noblegiraffe Sat 20-Aug-16 15:30:36

Not sure that 'can't be any worse than that lot' is a desirable recruitment strategy.

Who is going to be training these teachers any way? I know plenty of GTP (now Schools Direct) people who were given classes in a similar manner to an NQT and left to get on with it because the mentor was way too busy actually teaching.

HopeClearwater Sat 20-Aug-16 15:31:20

Too right noblegiraffe

IHeartKingThistle Sat 20-Aug-16 15:36:14

At 22 I was a qualified teacher in front of a Year 11 GCSE English class. The kids in that class were 7 years younger than me. They were great and they did really well, so I will always stick up for young teachers. You learn so much on the job as long as you have the right support, which I did. I did also have a degree though!

HerdsOfWilderbeest Sat 20-Aug-16 15:38:44

Big difference between an 18 year old school leaver and a 22 year old graduate.

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