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Teresa May to end ban on Grammar schools part 2

(12 Posts)
sandyholme Tue 09-Aug-16 21:38:38

continuation of thread !

Draylon Wed 10-Aug-16 13:12:18

I have made this point before: re selection.

My DH went to a rural comp in Oz 40 years ago. He has 2 degrees.

We went to a 25 year reunion, which included a tour. My background is UK village primary then girls GS, so it was interesting to see the science labs, language labs, the sports halls; and the professional catering kitchens, the professional theatre, the dance studio, the woodworking shop with gantry mounted band saws, and - the fully functional, working farm complete with competition- winning livestock.

The academic could learn physics, the farm kids could learn artificial insemination, and all at the same 1400 pupil school. Tho some had a 2 hour each way commute!

DC don't need to be in different schools & uniforms to experience educational differentiation.

GoosePimple100 Wed 07-Sep-16 11:35:10

Selective education promotes social segregation. There seems to be an assumption that everyone would use it 'if they could afford it'. We can afford it and there is no way I would ever promote social segregation to my children in this way. We're not all 'jealous' - theres a whole host of parents who are very happy with state education and would not consider selective education for their own personal values, nothing to do with affording it or not. My friends who moan to me about what a pain it is having to end their summer hols early so they can put their child through a few weeks' intensive tutoring for the entry exam dont get my sympathy im afraid - they have the luxury of choice. Paid for/ no fee selection does not automatically = 'better'

alwayssurprised Wed 07-Sep-16 14:32:09

We can all aspire to get every school in the country to be like fab with millions of GCSE options and extra curricular activities but I suspect it will not actually be financial affordable. Bottom line is, it won't be cost effective.

Maybe instead of grammar schools we can have academic learning hubs, where there are centralised resources to provide extra GCSE options, specialist lectures, access to field experts, trips etc for every school to send their most capable children to spend part of their time at? I don't think the current comprehensive system serves the most academicly able children well, or else surely they will be more state school children in Oxbridge? I think a lot of able children are thriving despite of school and not because of school, and can achieve so much more if the opportunities are there. They should not losing out to the privileged private kids because at their local comp they get a so so education with no way out.

sandyholme Wed 07-Sep-16 14:40:55

Goose/ Always come on to the 'Praise for Comprehensive school thread'

2StripedSocks Wed 07-Sep-16 16:31:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoosePimple100 Wed 07-Sep-16 17:47:46

Socks everyone is free to spend their own money how they see fit, but May's attempts to perpetuate the division this approach causes is very unhelpful. I would disagree strongly that 'most' people can afford the additional tutoring (and you seem well informed about my finances). Depends what circles you move in. As for my morals, theyre working ok for me thanks, firmly rooted in ensuring that my children get the most out of their state education and don't grow up feeling superior to any others. I have seen it for myself how some children in fee paying / selective ed remark to other children that theyre jealous of them because they're at a 'better' school. It ain't pretty.

Turbinaria Wed 07-Sep-16 18:47:59

Draylon is correct why the social division we want our dcs to be able to mix with people from different backgrounds having seperate schools would fuel segregation and stigmatise those that don't get into GS. I support ability differentiation in classes but want all dcs to go to the same school

2StripedSocks Wed 07-Sep-16 19:24:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2StripedSocks Wed 07-Sep-16 19:26:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Draylon Thu 08-Sep-16 14:41:41

I would agree that it's possible that the very able and the really struggling might not share a classroom very often in a rigorously streamed comp-- tho DS, who went to the top academically performing comp in the county has just described how apart from Maths, Science and Language where at GCSE, there was a single A/A* class, a single C/D borderline class, everyone else was in mixed groups; the fact is they all walked through the same door, wore the same uniform, mixed in the same dining hall, attended to same extra-curricular.

Yes, I absolutely cannot deny that the comp is 'leafy' (sorry!) which of course would make a difference, in that the DC arrive 'school ready' with on-board parents, and they don't either have, or tolerate misbehaviour.

IMO that's where the real problem lies: low level disruption.

The reason selective schools appear to do better than non-selective is because they select! You could more or less select for anything, and get a more committed cohort; in the case of religion you have DC who genuinely live within the heart of that community and are taught its values; or those who are prepared to pretend for years in order to get their DC in. Once people 'buy in' to any selection, others automatically get shut out. And the 'in' DC can also be asked to leave if they do not conform.

In our case, it's the willingness to pay a bit over the odds for houses in catchment.

Anyway, I bet private schools are rubbing their hands in glee, as they look forward to an influx of MC 11+ failures whose parents will not countenance Secondary Modern.

Draylon Thu 08-Sep-16 14:52:27

I agree that we've gone for 'selection through house price'- though you can rent a nice 3 bedroom house in catchment for £900 pcm, and buy a reasonable end-of-terrace for £230,000. You could pay that rent for say 3 months to get a DC in, then move to north Southampton and buy for £200,000.

If you really wanted this school for your DC, you might do that.

I understand that that's beyond some people, but this is Hampshire and people do commute from here to London.

For us, it was the uncertainty of 11+ passes, though I think both my DSs would've passed the 11+ I took in 1973 grin, and believe them to be 'in the top 20-25%' for normal-selection GS, it was a) a chance I wouldn't take, and b), I just don't like the social snobbery of GSs.

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