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Echp and the 6k from budget. Comfused and can't find legislation.

(13 Posts)
Youarenotkiddingme Thu 05-May-16 17:39:48

So when a child has an EHCP the first £6k is funded by school and the rest from high needs top up funding.

But should a child only be assessed for an EHCP if the school is already spending £6k?

How does that work when a school is doing all recommendations and child still failing and at risk of exclusion?

Is it based on need - eg assessment for specialist placement - or money being spent? Because a specialist placement is over the £6k and a child will only get it through echp assessment?

Anyone got any links to any legislation?

AugustaFinkNottle Fri 06-May-16 08:20:05

There is no legislation that says you only get an EHCP if the school is already spending £6K. It's a rule of thumb that some local authorities operate, but they're not right to do so.

It comes from the bits in the SEN Code of Practice which set out the criteria for carrying out an EHC needs assessment and making a decision whether to issue an EHC needs plan. They say that an EHC plan isn't needed if the child's needs can be met from the resources normally available in mainstream schools. Hence the fact that if current support is costing less than £6K they say needs are being met within resources normally available.

However, until the child's needs have been assessed, they really can't say that needs can be met from the resources normally available. People on the SN boards would confirm that, time after time, schools and LAs stoutly deny that the child has SN or that they are as bad as the parents think, only to be dumbfounded when it comes out that, actually, the child has (say) serious sensory problems that everyone has been ignoring.

The other issue is that it's not good enough to say that the resources are available when there is no guarantee that they will be used. I was at a course recently when this was discussed, and someone cited the case of a school which claimed that there was plenty of help available in school to meet this child's needs and there was no need for assessment. The trouble was the child was kicking off more or less as soon as he got into school and they were phoning his parents virtually every day to demand (illegally) that he be taken home. It was only when the parents refused to collect unless there was a formal exclusion that the school changed their minds. In another case the school claimed to be giving the child one to one support voluntarily but in practice it was withdrawn every time they needed the TA somewhere else.

Youarenotkiddingme Fri 06-May-16 17:14:44

Thank you that is fantastic advice,

I've had EHCP assessment refused but DS has been having interventions etc and access to student services. His behaviour is deteriorating and he's currently on alert programme for sensory stuff. I have a copy of Manchester judgement which pretty much says what you said about resources.

The information from la about Sen funding that comes with refusal to assess only states that where EHCP costs more than £6k the first £6k is provided by school.

I'm sure school could do more but they don't have the resources for providing more 1:1 support, or helping him make progress in things like spellings where wave 3 interventions for 2.5 years have yielded a 2 month age increase. Clearly he needs more assessment. Especially when he has salt etc report and EP report and they have tried all the recommendations.

But yet they keep coming back to the 6k and school can provide from resources thing.

AugustaFinkNottle Fri 06-May-16 17:55:09

Have you appealed against the refusal to assess?

Youarenotkiddingme Fri 06-May-16 18:52:14

I'm in process of writing my appeal.

The issue is that (current) school are really dragging their heels over doing anything and trying to do supoort after school and send home lacks to do during holiday and la are using this as a reason - school aren't exhausting all options.
However previous school did and it made no difference and DS has regressed back to where he was before support and nurture group in juniors.

They just don't want to give him targeted support which means DS struggles with environment and also where he also struggles with language it's just all too overwhelming for him.

I've heard before of schools like this - who want to do it their way rather than what's best for pupil and won't adapt what they do.

But I'm hoping as they don't have to be spending the 6k I can prove that interventions have failed previously and school are trying same ones that he needs assessment for what else will work.

The school are also very guarded - they didn't do proper transition (tried to blame me and previous senco) - even though current senco didn't even attend into say what school would do. Also blame lack of paper trail to disagree what they said is true (I've learnt my lesson and have a paper trail about everything now!) and it seems that as these things I said and they didn't do which I have no proof of are the things DS is failing at they won't admit it now.

The IPA document the la use isn't updated yet to reflect EHCP so even though we can log needs and strengths now that iep aren't used there is no where to write outcomes and dates for outcomes which means we are still working on provision - which of course then means la are getting out of providing anything more as no outcomes to reach. Grrrrrrr!

postmanpatscat Fri 06-May-16 20:21:44

I'm a primary SENCo. When I apply to the council for statutory assessment, I have to prove that the child needs support that costs in excess of £6k pa. If I can't do that, they will not proceed with even the first stage of the process.

However, as a parent, you can apply for statutory assessment yourself. You don't have to wait for the school to come round to your viewpoint.

Youarenotkiddingme Fri 06-May-16 20:35:09

Ive applied and they've refused to assess. I am appealing.

However they say about exhausting all options yet the information says only that school have to pay first 6k where the costs on an EHCP exceed this. Not that it must exceed this. And a school can only exhaust all options where the full extent of needs are known.

So where you have school doing everything they believe he needs to meet what's on professional reports and they still make slower than expected progress and Childs social and mental health and behaviour deteriorate how can you meet needs without knowing what else they are iyswim?

What I'm looking for is legislation that states an EHCP can only be produced where they spend the funds.

Do they really expect school to spend funds willy nilly on everything just to meet a finial target rather than spend minimal finds for maximum gain through assessment and provision targeted to outcomes?

postmanpatscat Fri 06-May-16 20:46:37

Sorry, I didn't realise that you had already applied.

I use a spelling and reading programme that I've found very effective with pupils with significant speech and language difficulties, you could do it with your son at home. I work with two year 3 pupils 3 times a week for about 20 mins each session, 1:1, and they have moved from non-readers to near fluent (red to turquoise if you know book bands) in less than a year. It's called the Hornet Literacy Primer (on Amazon).

Youarenotkiddingme Fri 06-May-16 20:52:59

I'll look it up thanks.

Ds has had 2 years of 5x20 mins a week on spelling. Also did accelaread/write.

His reading age is above average as his his vocabulary.
His spelling, word recognition, comprehension speed and accuracy and verbal reasoning are low. His literacy acheivement is low also.

Whilst he's just about managing to keep his head above water ATM with regards progress and acheivement the curriculum demands are becoming beyond his reach and adding to his stress. It's only going to get harder and I'm not sure how much longer someone who can spell and read like an 8/9 yo will manage to keep progressing?

AugustaFinkNottle Sat 07-May-16 10:15:51

Essentially the legal criteria for the decision whether to assess are:

1. Might the child have SEN.
2. Might he need special educational provision.

It's a very low hurdle, hence the fact that LAs apparently concede around 80% of appeals against refusal to assess. However, OP, it would be sensible to get an independent EP who is used to tribunal work to assess your child and do a report. Also SOS SEN do very good workshops on how to appeal.

Youarenotkiddingme Sat 07-May-16 22:41:45

Ive downloaded Ipseas refusal to assess pack.

I'm quite surprised that it seems to show low thread holds to assess and also re read the la information where they clearly state they require the school to fund the first 6k where the EHCP requires interventions above this level of funding.

It says to provide graphs etc of progress. I out all this into original bundle which shows despite interventions da has regressed at times as well as making only a few months progress with wave 3 interventions. I can also show he's made no Rogers in literacy since starting school and that his current level is below that he ended juniors on. Clearly he needs assessment to find out why. He's also completed the 10 hour therapeutic story writing so he's had interventions here as well. I can also show he got level 4 in spag test - so what is his barrier to literacy iyswim?
I guess I have to send all the information as DS struggles with X. He's had X interventions for y amount of time. He's made z amount of progress. He's seen ed pysch and salt and recommendations have been followed. Assessment is needed as his difficulties are too complex to be identified and met by school. (?)

Also as well I can prove DS has had a regression in behaviours since starting by minutes of meetings where I tell school this. Then the evidence from school of all the recent incidents of violence and swearing and the fact hoy has logged that I'm concerned he's regressed back to these behaviours he exhibited at primary school before he attended nurture group. I'm appealing saying I want resource provision so this links to that. (?)

postmanpatscat Sun 08-May-16 10:33:37

Just to clarify the first 6k situation, each child on the school's SEN register at census day triggers £6k per child being put into the school's budget. This is regardless of their level of need/support. So, a child with a statement or EHCP receives top up funding above that 6k that the school has already been paid. When I am assessing whether I can get an EHCP application together that stands a chance of succeeding (2 out of 3 applications I made last year succeeded) I bear in mind how much support the child needs to make expected progress and how much that costs. If we can meet the child's needs for less than £6k, there is no point in me applying for an EHCP.

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 08-May-16 16:43:50

But where a child is not making progress and has regressed emotionally and behaviourally but school is doing everything they think they can surely that's where an assessment is needed? My argument is that they can't know what he needs without a proper assessment iyswim? And they can't argue the school has funds and ability to meet needs when clearly the needs we think we are meeting aren't enough to support him.

All I can do is appeal. Half the issue is that the MS school DS is in doesn't have the facilities for social skills groups and nurture group etc that he attended in juniors. That's why he needs assessment for a resource provision - because that's the only type of ms secondary place that provides that service.
I know that will cost more than 6k!

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