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after St Swithuns - hants, for boys?

(65 Posts)
childrensservant Thu 20-Nov-14 16:12:21

SIL was wondering where boys move on to from St Swithuns? Not quite sure why she can't find out for herself, but I am hoping someone on here can give me a list of schools?
Thank you

JWIM Thu 20-Nov-14 18:20:18

Do St S take boys at any stage? I know definitely not from Junior school onwards.

Would have thought Pilgrims in Winchester would have been the boy choice for pre-prep, prep.

TeenAndTween Thu 20-Nov-14 18:53:49

I don't suppose I'm allowed to suggest saving her money and going to one of the excellent primaries followed by one of the excellent comps, followed by Peter Symonds am I?

TalkinPeace Thu 20-Nov-14 19:43:29

Not sure why anybody would send a boy to St Swithuns when there is Pilgrims or St Cross or Twyford to hand
let alone the utterly dire state schools

ShesARumUn Thu 20-Nov-14 20:18:55

TalkinPeace - which are the 'utterly dire' state schools?

TalkinPeace Thu 20-Nov-14 20:21:07

Its Winchester.
I was joking.
I've always wondered why ANYBODY round here pays for school given what we can get for free.

NoelleHawthorne Thu 20-Nov-14 20:21:54

agree - very odd. Good schools all around

JWIM Thu 20-Nov-14 20:26:55

I'm also in the 'why would you when state schools locally are so good camp' but education is such a personal choice.

ShesARumUn Thu 20-Nov-14 20:30:12

Ah ok - I did wonder (as my DS goes to one of the 'dire state schools'). Then I am in complete agreement smile

Clavinova Thu 20-Nov-14 22:48:42

Contrary to popular belief a third of Winchester primary schools have KS2 results below the national average and only a handful are Ofsted outstanding.... if she can afford to pay then why not?

childrensservant Thu 20-Nov-14 23:45:47

well, I suspect she needs to go private because we send ours private (we do not live near Winchester!!!) But I may be being mean!!

I don't know the area or schools very well but she's always fancied St Swith for dd. I suppose she could have both dc in the same place for a few years? Might that be a valid reason for ds going there?

They are in Alresford if that helps?

Gunznroses Fri 21-Nov-14 07:43:30

Perhaps OP does not live in Winchester?

JWIM Fri 21-Nov-14 10:36:37

Well if she wants to spend the money you could add to the other private schools mentioned - Princes Mead (co-ed). Alresford and village state schools are good. Perins at Secondary is great particularly if sport is of interest. Then there are fantastic options for 6th form.

Anecdotal current info on St S - friend of DD went from end of Primary, same KS2 levels as DD (all level 5s), worse GCSE results than DD (even got a D for heavens sake). Have also heard tales of very unpleasant attitudes between girls that don't seem to have been solved by school. But for the right girl of the right ability - definitely will do well. Worth the money? Who can say, but having looked closely at St S for DD we decided no - couldn't see what she/we would get for the money.

TalkinPeace Fri 21-Nov-14 13:22:58

They live in Alresford and think they need to pay shock
Too much money.

The junior schools round there are sweet and twee beyond belief - vehy naice
Perins is a lovely school - even if their rugby team is a bit 'boisterous'
and then its the struggle to choose which of the fab 6th forms

SS does a good line in anorexia and bitchiness BTW

uilen Fri 21-Nov-14 14:36:49

Advantages of private schools in Hampshire:

Extra-curricular and co-curricular activities
Latin and Greek
Science subjects taught by teachers who have degrees in the subjects, rather than a teacher with a biology degree teaching physics
Don't do GCSEs such as statistics and business and communication studies.
Have sixth forms so teachers can teach at a deeper level in year 10 and 11.
They enter and train for Olympiads.

Since Hampshire state schools don't have sixth forms, it's hard to compare outcomes with those of private schools. But Hampshire as a whole underachieves at Oxbridge entry and underachieves at getting A*s. (I get a bit fed up of people shouting how wonderful the system is in Hampshire when Hampshire is targetted by Oxbridge for the low numbers getting in.)

There is no way to know whether a given child would get the same grades at a Hampshire comprehensive as they would at a private school (academic or otherwise). Those who pay for education are probably paying in part for better support, perhaps paying for an environment with more kids getting high grades (*) but also perhaps paying for facilities and extra-curriculars. I think it is hard to claim that the overall package is comparable between Thornden and St Swithuns/Winchester. Whether one thinks the latter is worth 20-35k per year is another issue.

(*) E.g. 70% A-A* at GCSE rather than 30% A-A* in places such as Thornden.

TalkinPeace Fri 21-Nov-14 14:43:02

Maybe its because Hampshire can see beyond Oxbridge : its great for some things but by no means the be all and end all.

I'm quite happy with the grades my children have achieved in state school
and TBH 25% of GCSEs being A* or A in a comp that takes ALL ability children is NOT to be sniffed at.

I'd love to see how the teachers at many of the private schools would cope with a low academic ability set

The lower set kids will be the people who keep the day to day economy going, much as the sniffy superior types like to pretend they do not exist.

uilen Fri 21-Nov-14 15:02:06

But it's not just about Oxbridge: the high achievers in Hampshire don't achieve as highly as they should, which cuts off their options. It's irrelevant whether they want to go to Oxbridge or not - if they don't have high enough grades, they can't get into top courses at many places.

Encouraging a student to take 13 GCSEs, resulting in 4 A*s, 7 As and 2 Bs, (or 4 A*s, 8As and 1 B, whatever it was) is not in that student's best interests. Encouraging top set students to take maths a year early and then do statistics in year 11 is almost never in students' best interests. Teaching A level maths to get good marks in modules, but skimming the underlying concepts, doesn't help students when they get to university (and your daughter's sixth form college does this). And then there is the poor teaching of science A levels at some of the sixth form colleges - many Brock students got low grades for A level physics as chunks of material hadn't been taught.

Instead of praising Hampshire's comprehensives/sixth form colleges as if they are faultless, how about a more balanced commentary, discussing what is good and what could be improved? Those who choose to opt out of the state sector are often doing so not because of snobbery and not because of ignorance but because they have not had good experiences with the Hampshire schools. (And indeed it is not unknown for schools in "nice" areas to go into special measures e.g. one of the Thornden feeders.)

childrensservant Fri 21-Nov-14 15:13:55

hmmm, that just fuels my "keeping-up-with-the-Jones" opinion then. sad

SO, back to the topic, where should the dc go then? I would say, dc are average to above average attainment, ds probably will be sporty, year 4 and R at the moment.

Give me schools…… Churcher's??

TalkinPeace Fri 21-Nov-14 15:29:33

Its the feeder for Winchester
friends who have their sons there praise it highly

BrendaBlackhead Sat 22-Nov-14 11:10:54

This is interesting uilen.

I do actually think that the comprehensives should focus more on the kids at the top. Some very bright pupils will have been eliminated from having a run at Oxbridge because of not achieving the requisite number of A*s. Oxbridge deny they have a cut off, but looking at published admittance figures it seems they do very much have a bar.

BrendaBlackhead Sat 22-Nov-14 11:20:01

Never mind St Swithuns, I've just had a look at King Edward's GCSE results and they aren't spectacular for £18k a year or whatever it is. Considering the school is supposed to be selective I would expect much better.

So here in this region of Hants you've got Win College, St Swithun's or... the comp.

childrensservant Sat 22-Nov-14 12:04:11

Yes, I think it's the senior choice she's wondering about.
I mentioned Churcher's College up thread, which I thought looked do-able from Alresford??

Anyone know about that?

JWIM Sat 22-Nov-14 14:14:41

Churchers is certainly doable from Alresford, selective - have known some children to go there who have done well (for that child) but nothing stellar over the outcome for their Yr6 peers who have gone to local state secondaries. Some have had issues over teaching of certain subjects - but only have parent/child view for this.

If sporty then might consider Lord Wandsworth - again have recent experience of DD friends there who have underperformed at AS, and a lot of negative attitudes from boys towards girls. In last 5 years know one child who suffered, and continues to bear the consequences, considerable undealt with subtle and unrelenting bullying - think ruined A levels and higher education on hold.

Ullen Not sure what source you are basing your statements on GCSE/6th form but they may well be true. Hampshire are looking at the outcome for higher achieving pupils and working on improving it. But, as important, they are working even harder to address the long tail of under achievement at the lower achievement end - not something that seems to trouble the private sector.

I do think that it is not possible to make direct 'results based' comparisons between state/private schools because of the different intakes and the additional 'factors/facilities' that the private sector 'sell', although not all private schools by a long shot offer the list that you provided. It is a matter for each parent to decide if, as you put it, 'the latter is worth 20-35k per year'.

Clavinova Sun 23-Nov-14 13:31:52

When are Hampshire going to concentrate on better GCSE outcomes for the 'forgotten middle' achievers as well? According to Gov stats only 53% of middle/average achievers in Hampshire obtain 5 GCSEs A* to C including maths and English but the national average is higher at 57.5%. JWIM mentioned Perins in Alresford and only 49% of middle achievers get the magic 5 GCSEs there; that's about 50 average ability children per year group at Perins not getting the grades for an A level or BTEC (even sport related) course at the sixth forms then?

TalkinPeace Sun 23-Nov-14 15:50:47

Private schools have the luxury of being able to utterly ignore the outcomes for the children they segregate out the door.

The state sector has to try to provide for everybody with significantly less resources per head.

Private schools can be great, they can also be dire.
Ditto the state sector.

Which is why I loathe discussions where people talk about the best school or the most selective school as different children have different needs and capabilities.

Each parent should try to do the best for their child to the best of their resources.

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