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Disastrously low score - re-mark???

(25 Posts)
supersop60 Fri 17-Oct-14 17:52:42

Does anyone have any experience or advice about having an 11+ paper re-marked. My son got an abnormally low score - it absolutely does not do him justice. I'm not looking to appeal for a grammar school place, I just want to know what happened. The score is SO low, he might as well have stuck a pin in every answer - in fact he might have done better. shock sad

skylark2 Fri 17-Oct-14 19:03:55

When you say "stuck a pin", was it actually a multiple choice paper? If so, I wonder if he managed to get out of sync by missing a question out?

Georgethesecond Fri 17-Oct-14 19:05:34

But if you aren't looking to appeal for grammar, might you just be better forgetting it? What's to be gained?

LaQueenIsKickingThroughLeaves Fri 17-Oct-14 19:38:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

partystress Fri 17-Oct-14 22:48:06

In a similar boat to you OP. Shockingly low score in 2 of the 3 component s and wonder whether a remark (which the school brought up for us to consider) would make a difference if the problem was getting out of sync when she left a question out. Really don't know what to do as she currently seems OK with 'failing' and we always knew she would not be a full marks girl, but school would have supported an appeal if she had been close to border. If anyone has been through a remark and can explain the process, I'd be v grateful.

BucksMum02 Sat 18-Oct-14 08:46:32

Hi SuperSop60

I'm feeling for you here! Exactly the same scenario with my DS. He's always been in top groups, achieved high CATs, reasonable SATs, assessed as 'likely to pass 11+'. Knew there was a chance he wouldn't make the mark but the score is SO low and peers that I deem to be the same or lower level have sailed through . He's heartbroken ( not with the non- pass - but the score itself - he just can't believe it and neither can we)! Can't decide whether to get remark. Not sure we'll ever find out what went wrong anyway as I don't think they'd show you actual paper ?? Now not sure whether to enter him for 12+ or not ... Is he not as bright as we thought. Was it a bad day? Did something go wrong - my mind is spinning !!!

Eastpoint Sat 18-Oct-14 08:53:04

DN did this many years ago, she missed out a section completely. She went on to a different school, got amazing grades & transferred to the grammar for A levels.

notweeting Sat 18-Oct-14 13:37:17

It could be the nerves got the better of him. I have worked at schools that require the 11plus, there are always some students every year who just lose it on the day. It happens.

supersop60 Sat 18-Oct-14 13:51:55

Hi Bucksmum - I'm guessing we're in the same area! We're going for the re-mark. Like you, it's not about going to the grammar school, but about the mark itself. We've had tears, anger, frustration and little sleep. And now dreading Monday and the inevitable playground chat. I think I'll just tell him to say that his paper is being marked again because something went wrong. We have been focussing on the future and talking about how exciting it will be at High school, opportunities etc. After all, it's just a snapshot of one day in time......

supersop60 Sat 18-Oct-14 13:53:16

skylark I have considered that, but he says he was able to check some of his answers.

notweeting Sat 18-Oct-14 15:40:17

Is it really necessary to go as far as tears anger and lack of sleep. There needs to be some perspective, why so much emphasis on getting in? The children will only feel that they are a disappointment to you if they do not get in.
Your child's well being is much more important than a stupid test

Bunbaker Sat 18-Oct-14 16:04:43

I feel for you. This makes me very grateful that the 11+ is a thing of the past round here.

supersop60 Sat 18-Oct-14 23:40:03

notweeting it was my ds that was being angry and not sleeping, not either of us; we are more than happy for him to go to the same school as his sister. as I have already said - it's not about going to grammar school, it's the appallingly low mark that doesn't reflect either his ability or the work he has put in. My dp and I are disappointed FOR him not IN him. As parents, isn't our children's happiness all we really want? It breaks my heart that he is so upset.

BucksMum02 Sun 19-Oct-14 00:13:33

Hi Supersop60

So sorry to hear of the tears. We had them here too last night. He just ' burst' having kept a brave face on with a 'passing' friend play date, and I cried with him, and for him. He's just utterly perplexed as to how he could be that far away from passing . We've picked ourselves up now and dusted off the cobwebs - I just hope that his peers will be as tactful as 10 /11 year olds can be on Monday . I've told him not to share the score - they don't need to know that bit!!... Come back and let us know how your remark goes. All the best.

notweeting Sun 19-Oct-14 10:17:21

He is crying and upset and he is not sleeping. That is just as bad. I am sorry I do not understand any of this madness.
I hope he does make it in, for his happiness at least.

supersop60 Sun 19-Oct-14 11:51:55

notweeting yes, it is madness. Unfortunately it's the system round here. Thank you for hoping that he makes it 'in', but I'll repeat - that's not the issue. Anyway, ds is more philosophical today and not upset any more. bucksmum at ds's school, the head teacher has told them not to discuss marks with each other (yeah, that'll happen!) and I will let you know how it goes. All the best to you!

frankleybeeches Sun 19-Oct-14 14:51:37

notweeting--I guess you do not live in an area where children sit 11plus? unless you have lived with this madness people often can not understand how it can affect the children (and their parents). If the child's friend has passed and they have not, the child can feel bewildered and hurt -especially if they have seemed roughly equal throughout primary school.
Many times the so-called 'failed' child will get to the Sixth Form at a Grammar school or be at the same uni. I agree, it is madness!
Best wishes to all disappointed children.

TeaAndALemonTart Thu 23-Oct-14 08:47:47

I'm in Bucks and someone I know had her DSs paper remarked last year and it went up by huge amount. I would always say go for a remark, you have absolutely nothing to lose.

On the other hand, I went to grammar school in bucks and hated it wink

tiggytape Thu 23-Oct-14 09:09:57

Multiple choice papers are read by machine.
The machine (I am told) spits the paper out if they cannot be read eg if the applicant hasn't pressed hard enough or hasn't completely rubbed out incorrect answers. If that happens, they mark it by hand so in that respect, it should be fairly accurate.

However, the big issue with multiple choice exams can be getting out of sequence. Answering question number 11 in answer box 12 automatically means most of the marks will be lost. Sometimes children miss out a page too and it isn't always obvious to spot this on a sheet that just contains grids and boxes.
Sometimes misreading the question can have a huge impact (eg if the question asks for 2 answers to each question and a candidate only gives 1, they have lost 50% of the marks on those questions immediately). It is easily done when nervous and under time pressure.

For your own peace of mind, a remark may help to resolve things so there is no harm in asking but it is perfectly possible for this to be both an exam accurate result and, at the same time, a completely inaccurate reflection of his ability. Several children each year suffer mishaps or make silly mistakes on exam day that mean they don't do themselves justice and that's what's quite harsh about a system where there's only 1 shot at it.

DeWee Thu 23-Oct-14 11:37:42

This makes me sad really. personally I'd love to be in a 11+ area, but the thought of possible failing due to examiner marking error must be heartbreaking. And in some cases probably not provable.
Some might be exam nerves (I know someone who sat a GCSE early and should have sailed though, and got totally in a state and did badly. She was fine though when she did the rest of the exams and resat that one)

I wonder whether than appealing a better method would be that schools appeal for a child to have a resit. What sort of numbers appeal? If you're talking less than 100, I think it would fairer to ask them to redo the exam. That way hopefully exam nerves should be less as they've done it once plus if it was badly marked that could do that sort of number by hand rather than machine. Does that make sense?

tiggytape Thu 23-Oct-14 11:55:10

but the thought of possible failing due to examiner marking error must be heartbreaking

The worry is more that the 11+ is just a single snapshot rather than that the marking is incompetent.
It is just one day of tests taken by a child at the age of 10.
They may usually be top of the class, level 6 maths, the best reader in their year, working above expectations all through primary but then have an off day.
They might make one tiny error putting their answers out of sequence or have a headache or be sat next to someone who is sniffing or have 2 pages that get stuck together....

Of course if there was an error, this would be discovered on a remark but the usual reason for unexpectedly low marks is simply bad luck on the day, a silly mistake or an attack of nerves. These children are very young - no where near GCSE level and many of them have barely turned 10.

Clavinova Thu 23-Oct-14 15:42:05

In theory (and it would seem in practice) fully selective areas such as Kent provide a safety net for grammar school standard children who don't perform at their best on the day of the test. Last year 773 Kent children who failed the Kent Test were offered grammar school places after a Head Teacher Appeal on their behalf. Another 143 out of area/out of county children were offered places after Head Teacher Appeals and 130 children offered places after Parent Appeals (although this last figure also includes Medway) - that's over 1000 children offered grammar school places despite under performing on the day. As long as the evidence of ability is in their class books then they should be ok. Obviously it's not a perfect system as there's a shortage of grammar school places in West Kent and some children will be disappointed as they're just under the cut off - however I don't see the selection process in Kent as any worse than selection by postcode elsewhere or setting/streaming in Year 7 after SATs/CATs in a comprehensive.

LL12 Thu 23-Oct-14 17:42:52

Bucksmum, is that you that posted on the elevenplus website forum?

supersop60 Sat 01-Nov-14 19:27:07

Well, I paid £15 for a remark and it came back exactly the same. Unfortunately there was no other analysis of the paper and I'm not sure how we get that. I didn't expect my ds to 'pass', but I thought he'd be on a level with his peers. My worry is that this may have flagged up some hole in his learning/exam technique/basic understanding. OR, as so many have said - it's just one moment in time and in no way reflects his ability. Ho hum. Onwards and upwards.

darlingfascistbullyboy Sat 01-Nov-14 20:10:01

supersop60 I really sympathise. I was in a similar position to you with my dd 4 years ago. Her 11+ was two papers, she did extremely well in one but in the other paper - ironically her stronger one - she absolutely bombed. Seriously, the difference in marks between the two was as great as to indicate a specific learning disability. She says she was pretty nervous but neither she nor I have any idea why she did so badly.

She's in year 9 now & doing really well at a comprehensive, top sets blah blah. I doubt there will be much difference in her GCSE results to what she might've achieved if she'd gone to the grammar but it was a really unpleasant experience for both of us. She's a resilient kid but 'failing' has undoubtedly affected her self image & it's so hard for everyone when some of a group of friends get in & other don't. I have three younger children & I would think very carefully before we go through it again - fortunately we're not in an exclusively grammar area & we have comprehensive options too.

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