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Gove out??? Chief whip..

(60 Posts)
stillenacht1 Tue 15-Jul-14 09:22:55

Is he out??am actually shaking!!!grin

lostintoys Tue 15-Jul-14 10:06:40

I know! Can't quite believe it. Anyone know anything about his replacement?

HeyMicky Tue 15-Jul-14 10:07:26

It's Nicky Morgan

123rd Tue 15-Jul-14 10:08:32

She can't be any worse ...can she ???

scaevola Tue 15-Jul-14 10:10:13

The education policy isn't his personally. There is no sign that there is going to be any change from the Government.

AmberTheCat Tue 15-Jul-14 10:11:03

She appears to have very little background in education (surprise). Suspect she's been brought it to see through Gove's reforms, rather than do anything particularly different.

rallytog1 Tue 15-Jul-14 10:12:39

I don't see it as any kind of victory or good news. All his reforms have been enacted. It's done. Nothing will get better as a result of him going sad

Ilelo Tue 15-Jul-14 10:13:37

It's a shame isn't it that Cameron is more focused on winning the election than letting Gove continue the Education reforms.

I appreciate teachers seem not to like him and he is vilified on mumsnet but IMO, he was dedicated to improving Education in this country. Hopefully Nicky Morgan will be just as good or better.

ReallyTired Tue 15-Jul-14 10:30:56

Why is zero tolerance of children making no progress a bad thing? In many ways insisting that schools in deprived areas have high expectation will benefit our children. Why can't the high results achieved in Newham be achieved in Great Yarmouth? Why should white working class children be written off as stupid and lazy?

I feel that Gove has achieved a lot and I feel sad that he could not stay to see his reforms through. I am unhappy about the marginalisation of the arts in schools, but I feel that many of the changes have been necessary. Gove is a talented man and I am sure he will do well as chief whip.

Teachers are angry about pensions and lack of pay increases which really have little to Gove. I doult that a new education secretary will give teachers a pay rise until there are teacher shortages again.

beccajoh Tue 15-Jul-14 10:34:51

It's not going to change anything! He wasn't on a one-man-mission to change education.

Tansie Tue 15-Jul-14 11:52:47

Well, kicking out Gove has to be a start towards stopping the endless, nonsensical and farcical reorganisation of our DC's education, hasn't it?

Maybe the incoming Education Secretary might <gasp> pay some heed to those who know a bit about education as opposed to trying to recreate a non-existent 1950s educational 'utopia' whilst alienating teachers, parents and children.

I am in no way a conspiracy theorist, but I genuinely believe Gove was a plot to destroy the educations of 'ordinary' DC, whilst the DC of the wealthy and elite sailed undisturbed onwards with their private school IGCSEs into the Russell Group unis.

Tansie Tue 15-Jul-14 11:54:35

Sadly, I should add, I think the damage has been done, what with the academy and free school programme. Watch that lot come tumbling down.

Ilelo Tue 15-Jul-14 12:31:29

I agree with you re Academies and Free Schools.

However, it appears to me that Gove was trying to even the academic education received by all children regardless of background.

ReallyTired Tue 15-Jul-14 13:07:12

I think that Gove had good intentions. However the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It is fundermentally wrong that the opportunities offered by state education is dependent on postcode rather than a child's ablity or application. However some children need a vocational alternative to the ebac.

rabbitstew Tue 15-Jul-14 13:34:41

I don't think everything Gove was trying to do was wrong, I just think he was wrong trying to change everything grin. His changes have been rushed, all launched into more or less at once, the details keep changing to the point you wonder whether it's a lost cause trying to keep up to date with them, and he is bullying and undermining in his approach. He also conveniently conflates ideological change with proven best practice, trying to pretend they are all one and the same thing and that everything points to him being right and everyone else being wrong. I think his ability to bully and undermine will be most useful in his role as chief whip. I think if he ran a company the way he has run the Department for Education, the company would go belly up. A bit less media game playing and a bit more sincere, reasoned and intelligent debate from him would have been nice, given that he clearly has the intelligence to achieve this, but I guess he wouldn't be a politician if sincerity were important to him...

moobaloo Tue 15-Jul-14 14:23:45

It's definitely a start! At least now he can't do any more damage.

ReallyTired Tue 15-Jul-14 14:37:18

"It's definitely a start! At least now he can't do any more damage."

Ha! Ha! he is chief whip and his role is now to make all tory MPs follow the party line when they vote in parliment.

Tansie Tue 15-Jul-14 16:27:44

What disappointed me most about Gove was his almost pathological inability or willingness to look at the research, to consult the experts, to consider the evidence before racing headlong into 'reform'; endless, half-thought through change- DC starting exam course with no idea what they'd be examined in, or how. Exams with the same grading system and name as their predecessors but fundamentally different tests of different skills; an 'Ebacc' comprising a small 'core' of subjects whilst effectively shutting other, equally useful subjects out in the cold (and risking eliminating those subjects form the curriculum as a result); the downgrading of BTec subjects til they were regarded as worthless (note 6th form colleges brimming with DC who could barely struggle their way through GCSEs now attempting an A level or two! shock); the idea that all DC would get a raft of A*s if only they were taught better - nasty teachers! A failure to recognise different types of intelligence and their value to society. The destruction of many, perfectly adequate local schools by the introduction of vanity-project Free Schools; the forcing of other schools managing very well under LEA control to become Academies (and also thus making teachers' wages a potential 'race to the bottom' and allowing stuff like Birmingham to happen)- also note the demonising of the teaching profession to such an extent that many bright'n'best graduates would no longer consider it; a championing of Scandinavian models of education whilst overlooking that their teachers are very well paid and often Masters graduates, all living in much more fair and equal societies that ours could ever be (Finland has all but no private schools).

Let's hope our DC's education can be rescued.

nlondondad Tue 15-Jul-14 16:49:33

At the moment its very difficult for an outsider to interpret what this means. Had he been left in education it would have obviously been a complete endorsement of his performance to date.

He MIGHT be being moved because Cameron believes most of what can be "achieved" in education before the next election, has been achieved, and in an increasingly eurosceptic party needs a really reliable Chief Whip. It would certainly be wrong to suppose mr Gove is being given a non job, although it is not in the cabinet which IS a demotion.

On the other hand, he might be being moved following the DfE having to admit in court that there is no evidence that Academies and Free Schools improve education, and the Treasury noticing how much is being spent on Free Schools in areas where they are not needed while the pressure increases to create school places where they ARE needed which will also cost money..

Depends on whether the new Minister is there with a "steady as you go" brief or whether thay now have to sort out some of the adverse consequences of what is going on, which would be easier for them to do than Gove as they are not personally identified...

stillenacht1 Tue 15-Jul-14 17:10:03

Tansie I wholeheartedly agree.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 15-Jul-14 18:03:09

"Teachers are angry about pensions and lack of pay increases"

you are funny smile

highjumper Tue 15-Jul-14 18:30:15

I think Gove was an inspiration and welcomed by many parents. He tried and succeeded in reducing the number of children leaving primary school unable to read properly. He has made teachers accountable and given parents solid information about their children's progress. I think he has achieved the changes he wanted and now Nicky Morgan will just carry on with the work. I doubt if she will be as inspirational as Michael Gove and I hope she doesn't just cave in to the teaching unions.

cotwatcher Tue 15-Jul-14 18:32:56

I agree highjumper, Gove was needed to make the changes but perhaps someone else can continue his work.

Justtoobad Tue 15-Jul-14 18:39:09

Yes to Tansie.

Ziggystarduster Tue 15-Jul-14 20:22:48

whilst the DC of the wealthy and elite sailed undisturbed onwards with their private school IGCSEs into the Russell Group unis

Both my Dcs were 100% state educated and went to Russell Group unis and achieved science degrees at Masters level.

Most of the previous Ministers of Ed were dire- not least wet Estelle Morris, who resigned, unable to cope- a former teacher.

Gove IMO was loved by many parents for having the audacity to challenge the status quo and poor standards in schools- and hated by most teachers for doing so.

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