Advanced search

Private tutoring puts children at risk, says independent schools head

(90 Posts)
muminlondon Fri 11-Oct-13 16:51:29

Interesting topic. Apparently there are twice as many tutors as school teachers in England. I haven't found any statistics that reveal the most popular age at which children are tutored, but it must peak at 9-10 before entrance tests?

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 23:37:48's another one from the great man himself, AE:

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."

Sadly for many, it does not survive...

MoreThanChristmasCrackers Sat 28-Dec-13 22:57:47


"I never let school stand in the way of education" Mark Twain.

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 20:15:02

“The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.”
― Albert Einstein

MoreThanChristmasCrackers Sat 28-Dec-13 17:15:43

Att100, I totally agree with you there.
I am so glad that we are not letting targets, levels, and tests for the sake of it, get in the way of a good education for dd. She is H.ed and we so wish we had done the same for ds1 and 2.
When you get away from the confines of systems and classrooms there is no limit to the things you can learn.

LoveSewingBee Sat 28-Dec-13 16:08:05

Brain enhancing drugs ..... Yes, in the Netherlands GPs dish them out like sweets to university students. Most students I know use them .... I find it outrageous, but what can you do? It is legal here. Soon after the exam they seem to have forgotten almost everything, so I presume the effects are short lasting.

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 12:23:46

you too Kenlee....have enriching things to go do with my boy in the holidays...lots of which don't cost money at all...IMO, education in the wider sense is as much what you learn outside the classroom (and sometimes more) than in it....and targets are just an unnecessary evil which hopefully don't get in the way of education.

Kenlee Sat 28-Dec-13 12:06:42

I do agree that money does not buy the best education but then it also depends on what you are looking for. It does help in choice but I consider a school with good pastoral care of the utmost importance. In as far as academic results go I think most indies of any standing can make sure your child hits their targets.

As for overseas it is quite ironic my daughters best friend is Russian... haha...

I do hope you have a great holiday with your children.

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 11:34:27

the idea is not science you go:

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 11:31:39

aah "yet" is the operative word...I keep telling my boy that is his biggest asset and he should use it well...I have no doubt in the future though, someone will come up with and patent a genetic manipulation method to significantly boost IQ in a bid to create genius at embryo stage and the rich will buy into that or a chip that can be implanted in the brain that will help you improve exam performance by vastly improving processing speed or memory (there are already so called smart drugs) or speak multiple languages...only a matter of time....but hopefully a long long time.

LoveSewingBee Sat 28-Dec-13 11:17:51

Money can buy influence, sometimes even jobs, entrance to good universities but luckily enough it cannot buy a good brain (yet).

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 09:49:28

I just hope Kenlee you checked out your child's boarding school thoroughly as we did our son's local state school..before sending her 1000s of miles away ...and did not just buy the "brand" remotely or on a flying visit like some do... ....and as for effect on the British education system ....the courting or should we say pandering of some of the second tier and third tier British private/boarding schools to a rich global elite based on money not academics has changed them forever and taken them out of the reach of the middle classes here, as pointed out by the Good Schools Guide and others like here.

"When the wheel turns and the Chinese, Russians, and Nigerians weary of their English experience, those second- and third-tier schools will be beached like a whale amid the theatres, music centres and hockey pitches, and then they will close down, having betrayed the dreams of the men and women who founded them."

Food for thought huh? Don't address if you don't want to though....but money doesn't always buy a great education no matter what the glossy prospectus and website says.

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 08:27:40

i am not upset at all Kenlee...just like to call out BS when i see it.....and some are full of it!

Kenlee Sat 28-Dec-13 08:05:36

hmm that was a rather aggressive swathing attack. It still does not alter the fact that in some cases rich people have and will tutor their child to get into a grammar school. Which will be to them a free indie school. Therefore allowing them to have nice swanky holidays all over the world....

It seems you want to distance yourself from your original statement by changing the subject.

I am sure the truth has upset you which i apologize for but the truth is the truth. You may not see it that way but your statement blantantly puts two fingers up at people who are in a less fortunate position than you are.
Which I think is unfortunate

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 02:13:39

Why you are so interested in grammar vs academies in the UK when you live in HK and send your child like so many from HK to what they consider to get an "elite" education in British boarding schools is mystifying - you are not a British tax payer, you don't live here and obviously don't deem your own country's or even neighbouring country's educational systems even with their international schools as good enough for your child...but you come on this board to attack someone for sending their child to the best local state school they can easily commute to and get into fairly and squarely in their area - I feel no need to defend that at all but can't let your ridiculous arguments lie unanswered (I know I shouldn't take the bait).

I never boasted about swanky holidays but replied to someone who said generally that indies are better than grammars that that is not a general truth and not only that but you should consider how much you can use that money saved to enrich your child's education in the broader more holistic sense since education does not stop at school - really your efforts on improving education for all would be better spent figuring why so many rich people in HK and China feel the need to abandon their won education system and resort to sending their teenage children half way across the world to buy such a British brand of education which really has little to do with their own culture tbh.....I find that mystifyng too, very successful Hogwarts branding, I guess, but that's another topic for another thread and this back and forth is becoming boring now....let's kill

Kenlee Sat 28-Dec-13 01:42:29

Hmm you seem to be trying defend your position. In fact I know of many people who use the local grammar as a good free independent school. That is okay.

Changing subjects to focus on my reasons for my daughter schooling will still not alter that fact either.

In fact I am a great advocate of enlarging the number of Grammars available. Although, I am being swayed towards academies....

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 01:15:00

You totally lack logic again ...and completely ignored the facts that I said, 1) it's the best academic school (private or state) within commutable distance and so suits my son who is very academic, so why woudl i send him to an inferior school in my view and pay for the privilege of it? 2) that my son really wanted to go there ahead of any privates he saw, and 3) that he got there entirely on his own merits so he hasn't "screwed" anyone out of anything or bought his way in....and not only that, he will get the added bonus of a better "socio-economic" education but being surrounded by very bright kids whatever their background, rich or poor, rather than just rich kids and he may even learn a thing or two about how the other half lives which is an education in itself ....

I also said that people also need to look beyond the clever branding and spin of private schools....yes, the money saved is an absolute bonus, and we discussed what else we would do with it in the future with my son when weighing it all up (liking give him options he may not have otherwise like studying in the US or having money to spend on a house deposit as well as educational camps and holidays in things he is mightily interested in doing)- it affects his future not mine, and he is intelligent enough to make his own judgements....but hey stick to your silly point scoring.

My points were made to those who may be weighing up as we did for a long time the pros and cons of state grammar vs private and we have many friends who have weighed up the same...some went private because they did not think their child would suit a grammar...we went grammar because we thought it absolutely would.

By the way, nothing is free, like i said that is why we pay hefty taxes for our state education. What you should be arguing for is more grammars and better access to them not attacking those with clever children who manage to get there on their own merits...all the while happily advancing your child at boarding school thousands of miles from home probably because of the kudos value back home in HK China that the brand of British boarding school brings and because you think it will get her ahead somehow.

Kenlee Sat 28-Dec-13 00:53:27

I suppose you could use your grammar as your own free private independent school....Then to make out others are not as clever as you for not taking the same route as you. Then bragging you can go on expensive holidays because you have been clever and saved that hefty cheque.

I suppose you have lost the argument and its not worth going off thread to admonish such dreadful behaviour.

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 00:43:23

Has anyone else heard of a more stupid argument...that it's your civil duty not to spend your own hard earned highly taxed money as you wish ...educational holidays, saving for uni (and hey perhaps even a MBA or masters), saving for a deposit so your child can afford a house, and not sending your child to the best state school within commutable distance but no - THOU SHALT BE FORCED TO GO PRIVATE AND MIX ONLY WITH RICH KIDS BECAUSE THOU HAS SOME SPARE CASH !!! ...I am laughing so hard at this ...

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 00:35:15

yow know the more you comment Kenlee the more you are hoisting yourself on your own petard's not even worthy of a reply this you are resorting to tell us of your great charitable works...sad....really.

Kenlee Sat 28-Dec-13 00:30:55

Well you see Att from your response we can all conclude that I may have hit the nail on the head. Yes I can afford a nice private school for my daughter and yes we do have holidays in 5 star hotels all over the world. Yet I do think your missing the point that your basically rich and can afford to go private and choose not too.

That's ok....but you seem to be proud of the fact that your saving money for your child going to a grammar. Which lets face it is a free independent school paid for by the state.

As for living aboard and sending my child to a Private boarding at my own expense paying full fees...You are galled at what? That I pay for the best education money can buy. That my child understands the need to a good education.

Well actually now you have mentioned it I have mentored a fee children from the deprived parts of China ....One who I have mentored for 10 years is now starting his degree at HKU.....

So yes I do earn a substantial amount but I unlike you spend it on philanthropy rather than screwing some poor kid out of a good school place to go galloping around the Galapagos islands....

Att100 Sat 28-Dec-13 00:10:33

oh please...state education is free for all in this country ...that is what we contribute so much in taxes for...and it's educational holidays that we are paying for.....not swanky 5 star hotels if you read my post ...why should we be forced to move when the best local academic school with better academic results as I said is the grammar and it suits my DS down to the I also said he is very bright and got in entirely on his own tuition apart from some DIY ....

So the argument has now apparently moved on to how grammars should only be open to kids that are means tested and even bright kids with no tutoring should be barred from applying so nothing to do with any academic meritocracy at ridiculous galls me that you choose to send your child several thousand miles away her to the UK to buy an "education" and lecture other people on educational ethics for sending their kid to to their local best state school. A lot of people here would have strident views on you doing that to your child but hey each to his own...everyone tries to do what is best for their child I guess but please don't pretend to be going for private because of socialist principles and because you are doing society a favour.

Why would my child thank me for moving when he didn't want to to get to a private that is as good as the grammar in my view, when the local grammar is the one he wanted to go for after visiting it and the privates, where he is very happy there surrounded by bright kids like him and he gets to have a much more enriched education at home outside school also in the holidays with his parents, he won't have a large debt to look forward to when he goes to uni because we would have saved more money for him...why the hell should i not be able to apply for it as a significant tax payer and be forced into private education? I have no need to justify going to a grammar at all to anyone.

If you are so civic minded why not educate your own child in your home country and contribute your vast $$$ spent in your child's boarding fees and plane fares to a deprived child in your country that "would never see the other side of town unless s/he gets a crack at education otherwise"...

duh ...humbug and hypocrisy at its finest, my friend.

Kenlee Fri 27-Dec-13 23:44:57

I think it also depends on your views of socio econmics..It seems to me that a lot of the rich opt for grammar schooling as a free alternative to private schooling...Grammar schools were really designed so the poor can get ahead...

Im rather disappointed that the rich will go on holiday to swanky destination and take up a place at grammar where a kid is deserving but would never see the other side of town unless s/he gets a good crack at education.

It actually galls me to hear that some people are proud that they could afford private and didnt so to save money to go on holiday.

Att100 Fri 27-Dec-13 19:21:44

I should add, instead of handing over a hefty cheque next term and planning our usual Easyjet trip to France or Greece this summer, we are booking a visit en famille to the Galapagos...that is what we do with the money saved - we plan to enrich the education my son gets in school... next year it will be something equally special Borneo or doing an Earth Sciences camp in Hawaii. Again, you have to weigh it all up...unless the private school fees are a mere drop in the ocean to your finances.

Att100 Fri 27-Dec-13 18:46:59

Braunion....that is a sweeping statement ....and probably the wrong thread to debate this.....but believe me we looked hard at both..if one of the privates had been easy to commute to we might have gone for it, but it wasn't worth moving for ....and we have experienced a "top" private prep ...and it depends on what you are measuring it on....too many folk get taken in by expensive brochures and the spin on websites of some of the senior indies and don't ask the hard questions.

I know many families whose children have gone to the glossiest indies because it's the done thing. If you are very wealthy and want a certain "product" at the end of it and a higher socio -economic peer group for your child (i.e. from equally or more wealthy families) then fine....but they won't necessarily get a better academic education than at the best grammars....remember that in terms of real value add even the top indies are superselective choosing not only from the whole of say London and the South East but internationally.

They start off with cherry picking the best even at their prep feeder schools at 7+ , then at 11+ and with qualifying levels at 13+ ....and then take more carefully selected students including foreign ones at sixth form to boost their results (at some schools after culling the ones that won't help their figures) they also use more selection tools than the grammars can use since the latter only have one 11+ test, don't interview or ask about music or sport, have selective feeder schools etc.

If the rowing or rugby coaching or expensive facilities and picnics on manicured lawns are your ultimate goal and your child is a sports or musical star then fine...and that is what you will be paying for...but we were more focussed on the academics

But I also know several private parents who have become disillusioned at paying £££ for a glossy private senior school and then having to pay lots extra to have their child tutored outside of school to make up for significant teaching gaps.

Branunion Fri 27-Dec-13 17:10:28

A grammar is not the equivalent to a good independent school.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now