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Why are people so upset with Mr Gove?

(296 Posts)
nlondondad Thu 23-May-13 10:12:56

An invitation to people to give an explanation as we can take it as given that people ARE upset.

Note: Two kinds of possible answers to this question.

1. Why you think other people are upset

2. Why you are upset...

Answers which do not give reasons, will be marked down.

Now to go away for a bit, I wonder what will happen while I am gone?

nlondondad Mon 08-Jul-13 08:40:33

Being the OP on this thread really does seem to have been a case of "light the blue touch paper...."

294 messages on all things Govine. A man who leaves few indifferent. As I was genuinely interested in what people had to say, I have not come in myself, since asking the original question. However lately I have had a particular reason for being a bit miffed with the chap on my own account. if you want to know more look here:

nooka Sat 06-Jul-13 21:59:25

Reading this thread just makes me very very glad that my children aren't being educated in the UK. We are currently in Canada and thinking about moving to the Middle East, where I notice that currently the majority of international schools seem to teach British curriculum/exams. This just reinforces my view that we should only really look at school that teach either IB or Canadian curriculum.

The mess made of the new history curriculum is a perfect example of how to make an almighty cock up when there was no need or rationale to do so. Take a subject that is apparently well taught (good Ofsted ratings) and turn it inside out, whilst ignoring any experts who might disagree with you. Then act very surprised when there is a bit of an outcry and get forced to go back to the drawing board.

Apparently the proposed curriculum suggested that 5-7 year olds should be able to learn the concepts of "nation, civilisation, monarchy, parliament, democracy, war and peace", all do doubt as a part of the rhetoric of 'our island story'. Plus originally primary school classes were supposed to be able to understand the Civil War, the Reformation and other very complex periods of history taught by generalist teachers who may have little knowledge or interest in history. Just stupid.

Made me like Siman Sharma a bit more though, he was very damning about it:

He told history teachers at the Hay Festival: ”I’m sure Michael Gove did not actually want to give us 1066 and All That without the jokes, but that’s pretty much what we’ve ended up with. “This is a document written by people who have never sat and taught 12-year-olds in a classroom"

“None of you should sign up to it until we trap Michael Gove in a classroom and tell him to get on with it. The list of subjects seems to be essentially memories of A-levels circa 1965, embalmed in aspic and sprinkled with tokenism. Tokenism of the wrong kind.”

This sort of debacle should not be happening. Teaching our children is far too important to be so driven by the whims of a politician.

Talkinpeace Sat 06-Jul-13 21:22:33

generally standalone academies will probably still subcontract HR back to the council / LEA

academy chains almost certainly have a centralised company that does it - and bills the charity handsomely for the pleasure : another way companies extract cash from the education system

ipadquietly Sat 06-Jul-13 20:08:47

Phew! Thanks for clarifying talkingpeace

I can see that separate mini HR depts in each academy isn't exactly an economy of scale.

If a school is run by (say) Harris or Ark, do the parent companies deal with the HR, or does each school fend for itself?

Talkinpeace Sat 06-Jul-13 17:42:47

all payroll software uses an amount not a code : that will be the least of the problems

there is the significant issue with admin staff in academy schools being expected to be like a bursar without support or training.
two schools round here have taken on 4 extra admin staff to do what the LEA used to do .... so that's £120k (allowing for ers ni and pensions) taken out of the teaching budget

ipadquietly Sat 06-Jul-13 16:35:56

We're wondering how much the changes to HR computer systems will cost when the new pay 'agreement' comes into force. At the moment it must be very easy to enter 'M6' or 'U1' in a field for each teacher.
Next year, every teacher's pay will need to be entered as a numerical figure - I bet the software won't cope with that. Imagine the mess after pay awards have been given - all different increments from every school!

(We may be wrong with our assumptions of how things work at the moment, of course!)

exoticfruits Fri 05-Jul-13 20:03:59

I am surprised you have to ask. hmm
I am just thoroughly glad I am no longer teaching.

speedology Fri 05-Jul-13 19:50:57

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

mrz Sat 01-Jun-13 17:40:57

and perhaps not spend hundreds of thousands on curriculum reviews that they are going to ignore

creamteas Sat 01-Jun-13 17:35:23

I'd second that, the civil servants are not going to be chasing media sound bits and might actually look at the evidence before deciding on policy......

BoffinMum Sat 01-Jun-13 08:16:01

I think a year with no Government would be an excellent idea. It would save us a fortune, for a start.

Talkinpeace Fri 31-May-13 22:19:59

DH is at Cheltenham next week : I'll get him to eavesdrop in between his events ....

BoffinMum Fri 31-May-13 22:18:13

Sunday Times Festival of Education is supposed to be really good.

muminlondon Fri 31-May-13 19:39:58

But we need governments to bail out loss-making corporations like the banks and railways.

There's a bit more about the Swedish free school chain that's gone bankrupt as linked to by mrz in this research paper.

'In 2005 and 2006 the John Bauer schools made a profit of about 120 million SEK [£1.2 million] and 40 million of this annual profit went to the owner of the company. In October 2008, 90% of the John Bauer concern was sold to the Danish investment company Axcel. The Axcel Company was a venture capital company and had no experience in education. Involved in the business of selling and buying businesses, they showed particular interest in home styling and dog food.'

The CEO Anders Hultin, 'architect' of Swedish school reform, previously worked for Kunskapsskolan, GEMS and Pearson, all of which are involved or interested in academies and free schools in the UK ( some background about GEMS here).

Talkinpeace Fri 31-May-13 18:32:14

Millibrain is a disaster, Balls is worse, they have to pray that Broon and Bliar stay out of the limelight.

Cameroon is a weathervane, P-P-Pickles is as vindictive as Balls, Gove has his fingers in his ears shouting la-la-la

Clogg has so much fallout he's got the gieger counters clicking.

I favour the Belgian approach : after their election, no coalition could be formed so the civil service quietly plodded on with out "initiatives" or "announcements" or "directives" for over a year
and the country was just fine.

Lets just take a break from the politicians for a year or three shall we?

CelticStorm Fri 31-May-13 18:31:29

Has any one been to the Sunday Times Festival of Education, am thinking of going to listen to Gove. Some of the talks aimed at parents look good.

CelticStorm Fri 31-May-13 18:30:14

I've seen Melody Hossaini saying that he's appearing at the Sunday Times Festival of Education and that she's got a number of students asking him questions after his speech. Will be interesting to see what he says!

mrz Fri 31-May-13 12:43:38

mrz Fri 31-May-13 08:53:51

I confess the idea of Mr Gove criticising anyone for being indecisive made me hmm

noblegiraffe Fri 31-May-13 08:40:03

Much as I hate Gove, I do have to agree with him that Miliband is a complete non-event. He could win the next election for the Tories.

BoffinMum Fri 31-May-13 07:58:58

Simon Schama in great form there.

Yes, the comments about Cameron read very strangely given that everyone knows he has been on holiday this week.

I think it's all imploding for Gove, frankly. I understand the party is pretty dismayed he has hacked off the head teachers, who are a reasonably moderate bunch.

muminlondon Fri 31-May-13 07:42:41

David Cameron in Ibiza and not in the UK 'making the NHS more efficient and compassionate' or 'freeing millions from dictatorship'.

Actually, I felt sorry for David Cameron, when Gove undermined him so blatantly on official European policy. In any case I doubt that UKIP supporters will run back to the party to embrace his brand of cronyism, lack of honesty and elitism. On Question Time last night the UKIP woman slammed most government policy including on the NHS.

ipadquietly Fri 31-May-13 00:22:55

Thank you boffin. It nearly brought tears to my eyes!

As regards the first bonkerooney paragraph: did no-one tell him that Mr Cameron is in Ibiza? Will he be the last to know?

Also loved the link to Simon Schama's talk at the Hay Festival about the new history curriculum! grin
Simon Schama on the new history curriculum!

BoffinMum Thu 30-May-13 23:48:22

Did you see his anti Milliband article in the Telegraph today? He was incredibly petty in it, and slightly unhinged.

bookluva Wed 29-May-13 17:16:47

Apologies, noblegiraffe, my LOL was in response to an earlier message where someone asked if the contributor was Mrs Gove.

It's interesting, isn't it? I wonder how many traditional Tory voters will no longer be voting for the Conservatives because of their strong anti- Gove sentiments...

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