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Why are people so upset with Mr Gove?

(296 Posts)
nlondondad Thu 23-May-13 10:12:56

An invitation to people to give an explanation as we can take it as given that people ARE upset.

Note: Two kinds of possible answers to this question.

1. Why you think other people are upset

2. Why you are upset...

Answers which do not give reasons, will be marked down.

Now to go away for a bit, I wonder what will happen while I am gone?

MoaningMingeWhingesAgain Thu 23-May-13 10:16:16

1 - because he is a twat
2 - because he is a twat

Because he is changing things based on his personal opinions/preferences and not because the changes are justified through established Best Practice and evidence.


LastButOneSplash Thu 23-May-13 10:21:57

There's a few lots of threads that might help you work out the answer to this all by yourself. Failure to carry out sufficient independent research before asking questions will be marked down.

Littleturkish Thu 23-May-13 10:22:08

Because he uses unreliable and questionable research to push through changes to the curriculum (see History).

Because the focus on data demands progress every 20min of a lesson for it to be outstanding, which ignores the importance of consolidation.

Because of the absurd suggestion of longer school days and shorter holidays will burn out children. Anyone who knows about children will know how exhausted they are at the end of term- they need a decent break. I value family time AND education, longer days for children won't facilitate that.

Littleturkish Thu 23-May-13 10:22:34

Oh splash I like it

HabbaDabba Thu 23-May-13 10:52:07

Little - are your children really that delicate?

HabbaDabba Thu 23-May-13 10:52:51

OP - apparently the answer is that he is because he is.

Littleturkish Thu 23-May-13 11:08:29

Habba the 11-18 year olds I teach are. My 10 week old baby girl- well, she's ever so delicate- but I don't think that's what you mean.

I assume you are equating 'delicate' to an inability to function properly doing 10 week or more terms. Do you have any idea how draining it is being a teenager now? They work them hard. Five hours a day of solid learning. Demanding 100% attention. Changing subjects every hour, requiring different skills, knowledge and learning styles each time.

I challenge you to go into a school before a half term or end of term and find a fresh, enthusiastic child. They're shattered. Teachers are shattered. And there is marking to be done! That's what holidays are for, recharging batteries and getting the planning and marking done for the term ahead.

HabbaDabba Thu 23-May-13 11:24:28

Thank you for the challenge. I obviously have no children of my own going to a highly academic school so I of course have no idea what its like <rolls eyes in an exaggerated manner>

Littleturkish Thu 23-May-13 11:26:36

Thumbs up, Habba- excellent parody of a teenager there. Made me chuckle.

HabbaDabba Thu 23-May-13 11:38:50

Thanks Little. It's nice to know that my wit is appreciated.

HabbaDabba Thu 23-May-13 11:39:09


ShadeofViolet Thu 23-May-13 11:48:11

Because he is privatising our education system while all the while pretending that he isnt.

My own personal problem is that academies can set their own entry criteria and will not have to take children with SEN if they dont want to.

noblegiraffe Thu 23-May-13 12:15:40

Because he accuses people who think his ideas are shit of being Marxists instead of actually trying to understand their objections.

Because he is obsessed with a classical academic education when that type of education is not suitable for all, nor indeed would it be a good thing for everyone to have it when the country needs people with practical skills and training too.

Because he thinks that having the majority of children sitting the same exam is a good idea, ignoring the effect it will have on the lower end who are unable to access most of it. He also thinks its acceptable for 20% of the student population to not sit any exam and merely get a certificate saying they attended school instead of qualifications. (Thank heavens that idea was scrapped).

Because he flag flies his latest wheezes through the media, stirring up support among the Daily Mail crowd before actually checking with people who know what they're talking about who might try to dissuade him, presumably hoping that public opinion will push through his ideas.

Because of the amount of money that has been wasted on unnecessary Free Schools.

Because schools are being forced to become academies despite not wanting to, despite teachers, heads and parents being opposed to the idea (in both failing and outstanding schools), and Gove spinning this as 'schools queuing up to take advantage of the freedoms being an academy offers them'.

Because he is constantly tinkering with GCSEs, making them progressively harder year on year but in a way that is not transparent making it very difficult to compare achievements of students between years. Students applying for jobs in the future will have lower grades than people older than them who are just as able as them.

Because he wrote the foreword to his King James Bible himself. An astonishing piece of arrogance.

Because he thinks performance related pay or regional pay for teachers is achievable in a fair way.

Because he wants to rush through changes as quickly as possible because of election timings rather than it being a sensible idea.

WouldBeHarrietVane Thu 23-May-13 12:20:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WouldBeHarrietVane Thu 23-May-13 12:20:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummytime Thu 23-May-13 12:31:00

1) Because he doesn't listen to anyone (schools, teachers, employers, educationalists, universities), he just tries to recreate his idea of some "golden age" of Education. His free schools and academies are really just ways for him to wrestle control into his own hands, not to hand power to schools (although it may back-fire).
2) Because it is my children's lives he is wrecking. He wasn't even educated in England (I believe Robert Gordon's did Highers etc. when he was there).

HabbaDabba Thu 23-May-13 13:31:21

Various studies have shown that in many parts of this country kids leave school barely literate. Now, you can blame Grove for your DC getting a D instead of a C or even a B. You can perhaps blame him for the lack of SEN resources. But come on people, you can't blame Gove for the fact that some schools turn out illiterate children.

Hamishbear Thu 23-May-13 13:43:04

I think some of his intentions seem noble, he wants to raise standards?

I was interested in this new/reintroduced (?) Level 6 test. Only one child in our (outstanding) Primary got a level 6 for English last year. I was sent some sample questions for the level 6 (SPaG) test. As I understand it this is only for the exceptionally able child (at 11)?

This is a taster.

Ok these are the spellings:


To test these a sentence is given and a child must fill in the blanks when they hear the word. For example:

It was --- to wear a coat on such a hot day


Insert a colon in the appropriate place in the sentence below:

I have three pets a hamster (called Frankie), a goldfish and a cat.

Insert a pair of commas to clarify each sentence below:

My friend who is very fit won the 100-metre race

Rewrite the sentence below, changing the verbs to the past tense:

The boy thinks carefully and makes up his mind

Write a example of each type of noun in the boxes below:

Abstract noun

Collective noun

Common noun

Proper noun

Circle the correct form of the verb in each set of brackets

The brother and sister (attend/attends) different clubs.

Everybody (has/have) the same opinion about uniform.

Each of you (is/are) welcome to state your point of view.

These are just tasters.

Please note these are only for the exceptionally able 11 year old (?)

What were the expectations and the standards before?

niminypiminy Thu 23-May-13 14:47:52

Hamishbear, I'll share with you one thing my life as a university lecturer has taught me:

People massively overestimate what they were able to do at a young age. When they look back to themselves at 6, 11, 18 or whatever, they give themselves credit for wide reading, massive general knowledge and advanced language skills they actually acquired later.

Would you have been able to answer those questions correctly at 11? Can you actually remember what you could or couldn't do at 11?

throckenholt Thu 23-May-13 14:59:45

Because he thinks one size fits all - one simple solution - without any concept of the real world is like. But at the same time he is making one set of rules for one group of schools, and another for a different group.
Because he has not got the knack of tacking the people involved with him.
Because he is opinionated and blinkered.
Because he doesn't seem to realise there is more to education than jumping through a given hoop on a given day.

Hamishbear Thu 23-May-13 15:02:57

I know you're right. I have all my books from primary school and frequently howl with laughter and cringe at my work but I am not most people smile.

Something I can tell you is that my contemporaries at the Prep that 'took the exam for grammar & Independent schools a year early and found them extremely easy' (as some quoted at the time) knew all I quoted like the back of their hands.

I'll stick my head out and say it's not that difficult for an ordinary 11 year to be taught and grasp the above and similar let alone the extraordinary. Simple commas and words like 'accident' are these really only the preserve of the extraordinary able at 11?

HabbaDabba Thu 23-May-13 15:11:09

"Because he thinks that one size fits all'

Fucked if you do, fucked if you don't. Poor Gove.

Academies allow schools to function as separate entities and to make decisions that reflect their specific needs as opposed to that of their LEA.

For all I know, this could be a terrible idea. But people are complaining about him using one size fits all solutions and at the same time complaining that he is letting loose academies to do what they want. You can't have it both ways.

noblegiraffe Thu 23-May-13 15:16:53

Academies can't do what they want. Academies are still inspected by Ofsted, and Ofsted have very clear ideas of what they expect to see in schools.

TwasBrillig Thu 23-May-13 15:22:57

Is Mrs Grove back again?

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