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Would you be prepared to pay more tax to get better state education for all?

(707 Posts)
happygardening Tue 26-Feb-13 16:53:19

Any other suggestions welcome to ensure that all where ever they live and whatever their background have access to education of the highest quality.

Ronaldo Wed 27-Feb-13 06:11:44


I do not believe money is the problem in state schools and no amount of it will get the education I want to see and believe would work.

However,I would be happy to pay less tax and fund my DS's education myself.

Succubi Wed 27-Feb-13 08:04:57

No. For pretty much the same reasons already stated. You can't fix the problem that bad state schools face by simply throwing money at it.

happygardening Wed 27-Feb-13 08:37:02

Succubi how do you fix the problems of bad state schools?
I suggested a tax increase mainly because many parents cite class size as a reason for moving to the independent sector and obviously smaller classes require more teachers therefore more money.

rabbitstew Wed 27-Feb-13 08:38:00

You can't fix society merely by trying to fix academic education, you mean, let alone merely by throwing money at education. We won't solve many of our society's current problems by improving maths and English exam results.

Succubi Wed 27-Feb-13 08:49:08

I think the problem is a lessening of values (god I sound old). I don't think as a society we support our teachers enough and I think there is too much restriction on discipline.

happygardening Wed 27-Feb-13 08:53:09

In many countries education is seen as a way out of the gutter metaphorical or real.

rabbitstew Wed 27-Feb-13 09:05:44

In many countries, there are few restrictions on discipline, family breakdown is more or less prevented and the reality is that very few make it out of the gutter, anyway, particularly women who have to look after their relatives as a priority, rather than expecting the State to help look after them.

seeker Wed 27-Feb-13 09:09:55


bunnybing Wed 27-Feb-13 09:17:13

"No because I'm not convinced that lack of money in education is at the heart of the problem.

- Constant changes in education policy
- Ridiculous amounts of form filling
- Teach to test philosophy
- Children who come to school completely unprepared to learn and unable to concentrate due to their home environment
- Stupid policy of trying to force unacademic children into higher education "

I agree with what Richmanpoorman says. If you look at primary schools these days a lot of money has been spent on ICT suites, laptops, interactive whiteboards (probably the case for secondary, but I haven't been in one lately), so I don't think lack of funds is the heart of the issue.

seeker Wed 27-Feb-13 09:23:35

One problem is that a state school will have money which it can spend on, for example, IT, but it cannot choose to spend that money on, say, more TAs, which many would argue would be more useful. Because it is, i think, year on year money, rather than regular money that can be used for staff costs.

The way school funding is organised is certainly worth looking at.

socareless Wed 27-Feb-13 09:24:46

Absolutely not. Seeker do you work?

seeker Wed 27-Feb-13 09:25:27


rabbitstew Wed 27-Feb-13 09:25:56

Frankly, I think we've lost track of what we are educating young people for. What do we want at the end of it all???

ClaraOswinOswald Wed 27-Feb-13 09:27:53

I think we pay more than enough tax- it's the way our taxes are managed that is the issue. That and the fact that not everyone pays a fair amount.

socareless Wed 27-Feb-13 09:27:54

Just curious

socareless Wed 27-Feb-13 09:28:16

Just curious

seeker Wed 27-Feb-13 09:30:28

Actually, I'm on benefits, but I have Sky subscription, three foreign holidays a year and keep a carriage and 4.

socareless Wed 27-Feb-13 09:35:22

Ah I see. Thought you were a sahm.

BarryShitpeas Wed 27-Feb-13 09:40:37


seeker Wed 27-Feb-13 09:47:31

Full disclosure. I run a small business which has only made enough profit for me to pay tax once. My partner is a tax payer.

Does that qualify me to comment on this thread or not, please, socareless?

Succubi Wed 27-Feb-13 09:49:02

I'm sorry for my last post as it was written too quickly whilst on the train.

On reflection if I am honest I suspect funding plays a significant part in improving state care/education and an increase in tax will probably help to some extent.

My personal starting point on this issue is that all children should have a right to an education. Whether we as a society are in a position to give children a right to a standardised education for all I am not so sure.

I know that I am odds with many posters on here but I believe in a selective education. I am not a fan of the comprehensive system and streaming within that system.

I accept that life is unfair. I also believe that we should nuture the brightest and not have to apologise for giving them a head start in life and I accept that money sometimes buys you that start in life but there you are.

As regards the failing schools I suspect the issue is in part funding, but there are other more funadamental problems like trouble at home, lack of respect for authority, lack of aspiration and general apathy. I think the sooner we accept that it is not possible to provide a uniform education for all the sooner we can focus on also improving and/or providing a selective education for those children who society shuns and who through no fault of their own find themselves at the bottom of society's ladder.

notactuallyme Wed 27-Feb-13 09:56:55

From april. School funding is changing. Local authorities will delegate most money to schools, and schools will choose how to spend it.

seeker Wed 27-Feb-13 10:01:12

Will that apply to staff costs, notactuallyme?

TiffIsKool Wed 27-Feb-13 10:03:12

happy - Not all private parents are concerned with class sizes. Ours have 25 in a form. However, classes that use lab equipment.for example are kept small for obvious reasons.

People who roll their eyes at £15k buying you 25 kids to a class lose sight that these aren't not academically challenged kids that needs a lot (if any) 121 teaching.

grovel Wed 27-Feb-13 10:07:29

Yes, if I was given Gove's job at the same time.

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