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Gove's Baccalaureate is dead then.......

(49 Posts)
TalkinPeace2 Wed 05-Dec-12 18:16:26
CBI & Ofqual against it. MPs not happy with him.

gelo Wed 05-Dec-12 18:45:08

Don't count your chickens...

It sounds as if he might force it through regardless of all the advice against it sad

HoHoBrandyButter Wed 05-Dec-12 18:45:46

That'd sound about right gelo hmm

muminlondon Wed 05-Dec-12 21:28:56

Did you see the quote from him in The Guardian?

'it seems the education secretary remains undaunted. Speaking to the select committee on Wednesday morning, Gove said he would be willing to overrule Ofqual and press ahead with reforms if he believed it was right: "If they still had concerns and I still believe it is right to go ahead then I would do it, and on my head be it."'

Also saw this link to a New Statesman article 'Why is whirlwind Gove acting so fast? - to wreak permanent havoc with our children's lives.

MatchsticksForMyEyes Wed 05-Dec-12 21:30:32

Why does this complete tool think he knows better than the professionals who are in the thick of it trying to implement all these sodding changes?!

EvilTwins Wed 05-Dec-12 21:38:18

I love that he refused to show anyone the letter and said that OFQUAL could release it if they wanted anyone to see it. Very mature.

mummytime Wed 05-Dec-12 21:51:09

His quote really annoyed me, as its not on his head if it goes wrong. It is the school children like my youngest who will suffer long term.
It might embarrass him or annoy him for a bit.
The young people who sit this qualification may have their lives blighted for years.

EvilTwins Wed 05-Dec-12 21:57:35

I'm not sure he's capable of embarrassment. If the first year is a monumental cock up, he'll find a way to blame teachers and claim that the cohort of DCs simply aren't up to scratch, thus proving his point that the education system is not fit for purpose. angry

ravenAK Wed 05-Dec-12 22:01:01

I suspect the only way he'll give up on it is if he gets re-shuffled.

It's not about education, is it? All for the greater glory of the Idiot Gove.

muminlondon Wed 05-Dec-12 22:54:39

It's an extreme form of control freakery mixed with US free market fervour. Michael Rosen got it right: 'I see you as a kind of secular cardinal, having carved out for yourself a role to rule over a far-flung flock, determining matters of dogma and delivering sermons'.

TalkinPeace2 Wed 05-Dec-12 23:02:46

he believes

TalkinPeace2 Thu 06-Dec-12 22:19:27

TalkinPeace2 Thu 06-Dec-12 22:19:55

tricot39 Fri 07-Dec-12 15:52:47

i dont agree with everything gove does but there are a few things in this consultation that seem right:
- he wants to restore public confidence in the state education system (there are lots of good schools and teachers but the unpalatable truth is that there are many places where less than 50% of kids get 5 a-c gcses...... and this seems to pass
- he wants to sort out the unfeasible year on year increase in grades. (i can accept an upward overall trajectory but year on year growth without any downward turns at all seems ridiculous).
- one exam board per subject to remove inequalities
- getting rid of tiered subjects
- compulsory maths and english
- flexibility on age of sitting so less able get more time.

teaching to start 2015 for 2017 exams.

am i missing something? it sounds quite sensible to me...... <ignorant emoticon>?

TalkinPeace2 Fri 07-Dec-12 16:12:19

all the things on your list have ALREADY BEEN DONE within the current GCSEs
there is no need for a new and untested qualification

EvilTwins Fri 07-Dec-12 16:16:02

I would say that the OFQUAL letter lays it out pretty well. My biggest concern is that he doesn't think it's worth running a trial or sample- just wants to roll the whole thing out, meaning an entire cohort will be guinea pigs. Also, there have been so many changes already- but no opportunity to evaluate or assess their worth before throwing them out and bringing in yet another new venture. There is also the fact that so far there has been no information about what will be put in place for those incapable of sitting EBCs. It is simply not acceptable for DC to leave school with nothing. The fact that out Education Secretary seems to have no problem with this worries me enormously. That and the fact that he doesn't care what OFQUAL thinks and plans to go ahead anyway hmm

ravenAK Fri 07-Dec-12 18:09:28

<bangs head>

I think tricot's list illustrates quite neatly what we're up against.

If the wider public is under the impression that, for example, Maths & English are options then it's no wonder Gove gets away with the shite he comes out with...

balia Fri 07-Dec-12 18:36:11

"he wants to restore public confidence in the state education system (there are lots of good schools and teachers but the unpalatable truth is that there are many places where less than 50% of kids get 5 a-c gcses...... and this seems to pass"

Lots of good schools get less than 50% A*-C grades. They're good because they move the kids on - often further than schools with much better intake levels. Schools that have high numbers of SEN students, or EAL students, or that are based in areas of high poverty, or have high student mobility, or have cohorts of students whose levels are very low on intake are not necessarily 'bad' schools because they can't match the figure of St. Privilege's school for carefully selected young ladies.

tricot39 Fri 07-Dec-12 21:42:42

balia - Fine. I agree that applies in some cases, but based on the London families of schools graphs, it is pretty clear that there is a fairly wide spread of results even between schools dealing with the same catchment/intake.

"I think tricot's list illustrates quite neatly what we're up against."

Yes. I think you are "up against it". First and foremost because Gove is an incredibly skilled politician. I am not a fan of his, but I have to admire him as an "operator". Second the general public do not have faith in the current exam/inpsection/league table system. The Ebacc might turn people into guinea pigs, but if many people feel as though the current system is failing them, they are not going to fight to save it. The OFQUAL letter means little to the general population. Gove will out-manoeuvre the educationalists unless they can come up with something clear and succint in reponse to the general public's "fears" that he has very successfully captured in his consultation document.

TalkinPeace2 Fri 07-Dec-12 21:48:41

Lots of good schools get less than 50% A*-C grades
not according to the DFE stats...

general public do not have faith in the current exam/inpsection/league table system
the tory political class have that view
the minute you leave Islington, parents are just glad to have their kids in school till 16, with the chance of any job
and parents of bright children tend to know how to play the game.

if the CBI do not like the idea of Gove's toy plan, WTF is the point of it?

Gove will not "out-manoeuvre" a paper bag without his highly paid corporate SPADs

ravenAK Fri 07-Dec-12 21:56:28

I struggle to see this concept of Gove as a talented politico, though. As far as I can see, just about everything he touches turns to shit.

His modus operandi is to issue a soundbite, on anything from royal yachts to the restoration of O-Levels, swiftly followed by someone who knows what they're talking about saying well, no, that isn't going to happen. Michael got a bit carried away...

He's an impressively confident bullshitter, but an operator? Not so much.

Also, I have a problem with 'he wants to restore public confidence in the state education system', when his priorities seem transparently to involve reducing confidence in it in order to sell it off to his cronies. Looks more like classic asset stripping from here, tbh.

I do agree that there needs to be clearer opposition to his notions, but I don't see much clever manoevreing - just a desperate little man on the make, who has unaccountably been handed the keys to a metaphorical JCB.

balia Fri 07-Dec-12 22:00:09

Lots of good schools get less than 50% A*-C grades
not according to the DFE stats..."^


TalkinPeace2 Fri 07-Dec-12 22:02:47

help yourself
I have it downloaded and sorted

tricot39 Fri 07-Dec-12 22:15:01

i wasnt impressed until i accidentally watched an education debate that he "chaired" in the commons. it really struck me that he had massive sway with the mps (cross party) and commanded great respect while the public are not keen...... and lets face it, it is the mps that cast our votes.....

It kind of depends on how you define a good school, doesn't it? If a school has a below-average intake, but gets average results...

Gove seems to me a damning indictment of our weird political system of letting random people with no experience run departments.

"Hey, you've got a degree in philosophy, and have worked as a marketing manager. You should be in charge of the UK's foreign policy" How...why?!

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