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My unreserved apologies

(307 Posts)
jabed Mon 08-Oct-12 13:20:01

It seems I have upset MN posters.

I am sorry if you have been upset by me. I apologise.

I wont do it again.


MordionAgenos Fri 12-Oct-12 15:31:28

@rabbit Exactly. The B ark lesson resonates everywhere. And sexism is just one of the distortions which ensure that the 'free' market is anything but.

rabbitstew Fri 12-Oct-12 15:40:42

Loads of people were willing and able to take up my vacated position as a solicitor in the City. I would have been a fool to think nobody else could do it. I don't think I would have found someone I viewed as an ideal carer for my children unless I had been willing and able to pay them an awful lot of money. I value my role very highly, thank you very much. grin

MordionAgenos Fri 12-Oct-12 15:58:41

@rabbit I expect that all this is true. It is the case though that there are some very specialised roles in the city in some fields which only a very small number of people are qualified to do, in some cases because a key element of 'being qualified' to do the thing is having a body of certain specific very specialised work experience that only a tiny number of people will have. I'm one of a very small number of people in the world who can do what I do. Lots of people could probably do it if they had followed exactly the same career path as me and built up the same CV (and had the same skills mix, because it's not all about knowledge) but few people have done that therefore I get paid what I get paid for being a very scarce commodity. This means that I get away with being (a) female and (b) strange grin

Xenia Fri 12-Oct-12 16:24:32

All cultures and countries have cleaning and housework at the bottom and rich women always find others to help with the dross of day to day childcare although we all of course like a few hours to cuddle and breastfeed our babies. I think you can value rare skills. Miss World will make money and marry a billionaire whereas someone who looks like the back end of a bus won't. Someone with an IQ of 80 will not be in much demand whereas someone rather brighter may find employers and indeed potential husbands in effect bidding for them left right and centre. I agree it is very hard to get entirely free markets just as much as it has been very hard to experiment with pure communism.

It may be sexism that women get landed with years of dull domesticity but they must take some responsibility 0 they can shout from the roof tops I am far too good for this, it is dull dull dulll, they can say to their husband when he suggests they stay home - oi buster - here is the baby, if you think it's so much fun or necessary for a parent to be at home you do it.

To suggest caring for under 3s is very difficult and only mothers can do it keeps women down and in fact is much worse sexism than someone whistling at you in the office when you bend over. A philosophy that dull jobs have value when done by women is very very damaging to women.

MordionAgenos Fri 12-Oct-12 16:36:15

I don't think anyone here has suggested that dull jobs have value when done by women. I have suggested that some (obviously not all) jobs which you call dull may not actually be as dull as you believe and furthermore are currently given low economic value because of their perceived 'women's work' status rather than because they are easy to do well, or dull. In societies across the world we can see evidence of shifting value patterns where previously 'male-domain' jobs have become either gender neutral or more 'female domain'.

I agree that there are some people on this thread who have either suggested outright, or implied, that only mothers can care for under 3s properly. This is clearly lunacy of the first order. Fathers can care for under 3s properly, and men and women who have not had children can also do this. But clearly not everybody can do it well - there is a definite skillset involved (one element of which is probably not finding it boring). There is a world of difference between believing that caring for under 3s is difficult (not that I do, necessarily - I do believe though that not everybody can do it well) and believing that only mothers can do it.

rabbitstew Fri 12-Oct-12 17:39:49

I found the area of work I was doing as a solicitor extremely boring. That's how I knew I'd chosen the wrong area of work! My clients were definitely getting the more interesting end of the transactions. Looking after my under 3s was far more energising - the great thing about kids is they keep growing up and changing and, when they are your own, are somehow far more endearing, amusing and generally diverting than the clients I used to work for... I saw quite clearly that some of the people I worked with genuinely did enjoy what they were doing, some were also highly specialised after years of doing the job and it would have been a disaster for the firm if they had left (and pretty bad for them if their specialism ceased to be relevant), but a substantial proportion really didn't enjoy what they did, they just didn't know what else to do once they'd got thus far and assumed that most well paid jobs were stressful and boring, one way or another.

pianomama Sat 13-Oct-12 22:35:08

rabbit - I think you do not have to explain the obvious. I really think that being a mother is the most important, fulfilling , rewarding , enriching job you will ever do. We are so luckly to be able to give life, admire it,nurture it and keep its bottoms clean. Everything else is secondary. It is the only natural, unselfish and truly rewarding job that will never get boring. (I think) .
Why compete with men when we can make them - men, women and bring them up to be the way we like and believe is right? We are in charge - the hand which rocks the cradle rules the world.Thats my kind of feminism.
I think a lot of sexist behaviour in a work place comes from men who are insecure - why give them a satisfction by engaging in it? If you are good at what you do there is very little they can do to undermind it. Girl power.

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