Parts of the country with both grammar schools and decent comprehensives?(76 Posts)
Could anyone list any parts of the UK which have both grammar schools and reasonably good comprehensives? We are aware that we're going to need to move house at some point before dc hit secondary school, and want to give them the best chances - i.e., a stab at a grammar school, but failing that, a reasonable non-selective secondary within catchment.
We're happy to consider any areas really although we are not rich, so sadly, areas close to London are going to be off limits for us.
FWIW, I don't think I stand a cat in hell's chance of convincing Talkinpeace that she misunderstands the educational provision in my county; I merely hope to clear up any confusion for anyone else seeking advice on moving to the area (whichever way round - hoping it's fully selective or that it's not. It's not).
Ahhhh! Yes, you have to be in the top 25% of the ability spread in the county to go to a grammar but that doesn't mean they take the whole top 25% of the whole county - you also have to be near one too!
There are no grammar schools for at least a 20 mile radius of the cityof Lincoln. There are nowhere near enough places for the whole top 25% of the whole county; just the top 25%of those market towns that have grammars.
If you live in Lincoln or surrounding sprawl or the many surrounding villages (the very most heavily populated part of the county) you will go to a true comprehensive.
How difficult is that to understand? I repeat, is any school that is 30-40 miles from a grammar in any direction in the country no longer a comp? In geographical/distance terms it's like saying Leicestershire has no comps if Notts has grammars (it doesn't).
(Bangs head on table).
Has anyone said Bromley?
There is a boys' and a girls' super selective, and some very good comprehensives - both single sex and coed. There are some fairly average schools, as well, though.
As per your own LEA website, the grammars take the top 25% in the county.
Yep, I think there are few secondary schools left here which are not academies but they're not allowed to get more selective, are they, only less? So I suppose that's good.
But you can be up to 30 miles from the grammars in the middle of the county!!! As I said that's further than going across several authority boundaries in other counties. Do all other comps in other counties suddenly become not comp if there's a selective school 30 miles away?
Don't want to keep hammering the point but I think it would be helpful to anyone reading the site if you would stop referring to lincs as fully selective. It really really isn't.
I'd not actually noticed that this thread had new posts on it.
ANY school with a selective school within its orbit of parents is not comprehensive.
Not worth arguing about though, as Gove is turning the blooming lot into Academies anyway.
South Manchester -we are in Trafford, which has a number of grammar schools, Altrincham Boys and Altrincham Girls Grammar Schools are particularly well thought of and always do well in the national league tables. Very difficult to get into and so the alternatives in the area are good too. Housing is expensive particularly around Altrincham and surrounding areas though.
For anyone reading this thread, please take note that TalkingPeace doe snot know what she is talking about wrt Lincolnshire.
There are definitely true comprehensives here. If you live in Lincoln itself you are a minimum of twenty miles from a grammar school. Lincoln and surrounding villages are by far the most heavily populated part of the county. All the schools in this areas are comprehensives. There is one independent school which is so small as for its intake to have minimal to no impact on the intake of the surrounding comprehensives. Obviously there are some villages where you start to reach a cross-catchment possibility of a grammar, a secondary modern or a true comprehensive.
There are 13 grammar schools in a county of 70 secondaries in total. Around 15 secondary moderns. These are all in the smaller outlying market/coastal towns. The grammars have smaller intakes than the comps in and around the city, usually a 3-4 form intake rather than the 6-8 form intake at the comps in the city/suburban areas. Over half of the grammars are also single sex which many many parents do not like and so many children who pass the 11+ or are capable of doing so do not go there anyway, making the 'sec mods' better and better until there is a tipping point of many other brighter children seeing more opportunities at the sec mods which are now more like comprehensives and therefore opting to go there. Sleaford is a good example of this.
By my rough calculations, I think around 10% of the children in the county are educated at a grammar, making possibly another 25% at a secondary modern (though there is much grey area in which sec mods have a 'top set' intake and which don't: see reasons above). Leaving around 65% of the county educated at proper comprehensives.
Please tell me, talkinpeace, why you never respond to my comments correcting your mistaken view of how our county is organised? It is a very large geographical area and your incorrect description is akin to describing how one smaller county's educational system works by looking at its neighbours.
I agree - the sort by 5 actual GCSEs (any 5) is just as clear in Grammar counties.
EBaccs have been mentioned upthread; using the number of pupils attaining this is a little unfair now, seeing as the goalposts changed before the last lot of students started their GCSE courses.
Ripley is faith, so if that's your fallback you need to check the admissions criteria. If your kid is bright enough to get a residual place, you can go as far south as Broughton (just north of Preston) - a comp which people move house to get into catchment for.
as has already been said Lancaster. The grammars there take from quite a wide area so you can be well positioned for either QES in Kirkby Lonsdale or Ripley in Lancaster for your comps
He's worked at Bourne academy. Compared with a true comp it has no top set. No offence but that is the case - the top set are at the Grammar.
Indeed, that is why my kids are NOT at my local comp, they are at the one up the road - but I still did not have the stress of the 11+
if I could move nearer to the A36 I would !!!!
Talkin I think my worry comes because where I grew up there was no choice - even between Comps. You went to your local school and that was it. And unfortunately (although I look on school days fondly from a social pov) my school was terrible. They focused on pushing everyone to get 5 A-C's but didn't think at all about pushing further those who were always going to achieve that.
Where I live on the Hampshire / Wiltshire border there are good single sex grammar schools in Salisbury, and some very good state comps like Romsey Community School.....
talkinPeace2, not sure how long ago your DH worked in Lincs but my DD is at Bourne academy and is in top set for English. they are in sets for most subjects.
Bucks/Berks borders. We live in Berks so have comprehensive system but are also in catchment for Bucks grammars.
we have no "choice" - its comps or private ; but it does not seem to cause a problem.
I LOVE the fact that we do not have the 11+ and the stress that goes with it
We live in Birmingham and DD is tiny but secondary schools will be a big deciding factor if we ever move. We have the choice of trying for the very good grammars, or going comprehensive which (in our catchment) means a very good girls school.
I dread moving somewhere where there is no "choice" of system.
Interesting stuff. Thanks. The English Bacc stuff is interesting too. Looks the quality of provision is patchy. It is still an affordable option if people want to relocate for schooling (although not every area of Lincs....) but be able to afford to buy or rent. A lot of people are priced out of other areas where schools are good.
63 Secondaries on the table, of which three have since shut.
Interestingly Skegness Grammar gets high results but DIRE Value added .....
As I have said before, Lincolnshire does make their school split work better than Kent , but the rural rather than commuter belt nature has a lot to do with that.
NI has excellent schools, both selective and non, but guessing that might be a leap too far for you OP?
Dorset, excellent secondary schools in Gryphon School, Lytchett Minster and Thomas Hardy, Purbeck has just got a new headteacher and is on the up. Aldo grammar schools in Poole and I think the Bournemouth secondaries are good as well.
There will be some poor comps around the coast and possibly in Lincoln but not that many. Am amazed at the 32 figure btw- there aren't that many secondary schools in the whole county. Does that inc North East and north Lincs?
I don't work in education so am not a specialist. I do know that a lot of people who choose to live in Lincolnshire do it because of the schools, and the fact that there are decent schools combined with cheap property which is hard to find. Low wages though.
I live in a small market town where there is a boys and girls grammar, plus a comp. All perform very well.
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