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Unqualified teachers

(165 Posts)
morethanpotatoprints Sat 04-Aug-12 22:45:04

Who, apart from some qualified teachers are really mad about this. I do think there seems to be a lot of sensationalist reporting going on in the press.
I heard an advert on the radio today for unqualified teachers posts and apparentely they need a degree to be able to teach and in any subject. How is this any different than today with people with degrees in Textiles teaching in primary schools.
However, according to some QTs on here children will suffer as a consequence and anybody is allowed to teach without so much as a GCSE let alone a degree

corlan Sat 04-Aug-12 23:10:26

I'm a TA and I don't want my children taught by unqualified teachers.

Teaching is a specialist job, you need to be trained to do it properly. There is no question that children's education will suffer if they are taught by people who do not know how to teach.

Why would you not be angry about this - that's what I don't get!

morethanpotatoprints Sat 04-Aug-12 23:17:46

corlan. I personally don't think the training was necessarily very good. I wouldn't want me teaching other peoples children and I'm qualified. Also my dds past teacher y3 had a degree in Textiles. There were notices on doors and labels on boxes with bad spelling. "Roll Play""

germyrabbit Sat 04-Aug-12 23:29:20

ime i have found many a TA more suitable to teach children than fully qualified teachers who have gone through the 'system'

omfgkillmenow Sat 04-Aug-12 23:33:10

Ok im no expert on this, so maybe you guys can fill me in. Does a teaching qual cover how to handle 30 kids screaming all at once? how to divide your time between children based on need? how to deal with class troublemakers? How to disguise your dislike for some of the little brats and how not to favour others even if they are gems? How to deal with monster parents? How to organise a class so that they can actually get things done?

Or is it more based on how to break down information into chunks and techniques so that the children can take things in? Or is it both?

I have a degree in psychology and was thinking about doing the extra year to become a teacher, but I don't know if some of these things can actually be taught... Im thinking that maybe it is a natural ability to be able to deal with 30 weans all chatting at once

LemarchandsBox Sat 04-Aug-12 23:36:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mymatemax Sat 04-Aug-12 23:37:16

How can you be an unqualified teacher, you are either a teacher or you are not.
I would not go in to hospital & expect to be operated on by an unqualified doctor, or flown by an unqualified pilot, or even driven by an unqualified driver.

Without the qualification surely they are just asking for a person, totally wrong & devalues teaching & education.
I am not a teacher btw, just a parent who has huge respect for my childrens' qualified teachers.

morethanpotatoprints Sat 04-Aug-12 23:38:28

germyrabbit, likewise so have I.
Its just not practical to say teachers are only good if they are qualified by a particular training course such as a PGCE unless they are all the same at the same level, but they aren't. I have found so many different experiences and level of training since speaking to people about their PGCE. I find it odd that so many people would put their trust in this and not want to know more before making a judgement about childrens education suffering.

mymatemax Sat 04-Aug-12 23:38:47

the fact that the training isnt perhaps very good is not an argument to allow unqualified personnel to teach, it is just a reason to improve the training.

germyrabbit Sat 04-Aug-12 23:40:35

mymate i wouldn't think the national curriculum is that hard to follow for an astute a level student

corlan Sat 04-Aug-12 23:40:43

Most of the NQT's that come to my school are very good - which must be due,in large part, to their training. Some of them have completed the GTP course and I've seen how hard they've worked and the study they've had to do to pass.

I don't care what my child's primary school teacher has a degree in as long as he or she is trained to teach primary age children. As for spelling, we had an English teacher whose spelling was somewhat dodgy and I can honestly say he was one of the best teachers I have ever worked with. He knew how to teach.

mymatemax Sat 04-Aug-12 23:43:24

morethanpotatoprints - that is surely a question of accountability and monitoring. I'm not talking number crunching & SATS but quality heads who spend time in the classroom, monitoring teachers & childrens progress.

Same as any line manager in any business/profession they must know their staff & their strengths & weaknesses. Heads should be allowed to manage their staff performance with the support of the governers & LEA's

morethanpotatoprints Sat 04-Aug-12 23:45:28

Omfg.
I can only speak from my experience but my PgCE covered none of this. I did learn it during my practice though.
Just because a person is qualified to do a job it doesn't make them good at it though. Sometimes a lesser qualified person can do it equally as good or better.
Lemarch. You will find that many TA's are qualified teachers already. They could have better quals than the teacher themself.

ninah Sat 04-Aug-12 23:46:35

omfg it covers all those things and more (with possible exception of 'monster' parents - you pick this one up on the job. To be fair I've only dealt with one parent who came anywhere near that catagory)

mymatemax Sat 04-Aug-12 23:47:04

Following the national curriculum is not the sum of teaching & we must not allow anyone less than those with a minimum standard to teach our children.

Apart from anything else how does a head ever begin to assess her staff performanc eif they are not all starting from an equal trainign point.
You can't hold people accountable if they dont have at least the minimum standard of qualification.

ninah Sat 04-Aug-12 23:47:42

ah, I did GTP, so it was v practical - you are employed as an unqualified teacher for year while training

ninah Sat 04-Aug-12 23:48:24

category, even whoops

mymatemax Sat 04-Aug-12 23:49:23

I totally agree that having a qualification does not make a good teacher, but neither does not having a qualification, thats hardly an argument for allowing lower standards in our schools.

germyrabbit Sat 04-Aug-12 23:50:38

does the pgce have a entrance test?

LemarchandsBox Sat 04-Aug-12 23:51:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

corlan Sat 04-Aug-12 23:51:50

Sometimes a lesser qualified person can do it equally as good or better

Yes but only sometimes. 99 times out of 100 the person who has studied how to teach will be a better bet than the person that hasn't.

ninah Sat 04-Aug-12 23:53:18

entrance tests in maths, english plus interview plus group task would be normal
for gtp a two day process including similar tests - 400 suitably qualified applicants for 25 places this year

mymatemax Sat 04-Aug-12 23:56:34

But why oh why would we want to encourage people who haven't been trained to teach to teach our children.

I would like it to be tightened & there be greater training for teaching assistants.
One of my sons is disabled and lovely as his teaching assistant is she has no training in how to support a disabled person to learn. She's very nice but is just a parent who interviewed well& wants to work school hours!

Do we really want our children taught by others who maybe completed a degree many moons ago & now fanices trying their luck in the classroom.

LemarchandsBox Sat 04-Aug-12 23:58:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mymatemax Sun 05-Aug-12 00:06:23

Yes, they should have but if there was a minimum standard at least they would have some basic training.
The fact that there is no minimum standard means that a person can be appointed because they are nice, will fit in to the staff room, are available to start next week or just because...
Its not that i insist on degree for degree sake, i dont care if my childs teacher has a degreee or not but surely they MUST have a teaching qualification that trains them to teach to a minimum standard before they are let loose in the classroom.
The same should be for TA's but obviously specifi to their post which is very different from teaching.

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