Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements(663 Posts)
MNHQ have commented on this thread.
Tiffin Schools (Boys & Girls) have issued their Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013-14. Boths Schools have decided to ignore pleas from the local community and opted to continue with Open Selection.
Though most of the grammar schools have catchment/proximity rules, some even going to the extent of denying applications to sit for their entrance test in breach of Grenwich ruling, Tiffins would continue open selection policies. Only handful of children from Kingston & surrounding areas get places in Tiffins. Most of the places go to the children living at very very far away places, eg. Harrow, Southall, Greenford.
Grammar schools from Bromley (St. Olave & Newstead Wood), Redbridge (Woodford County & Ilford County) or Barnet/Herts (DAO & Latymer) or Slough (Langley) would not allow out-of-catchment children to even apply for admission tests. Other schools like Kent grammars would only give places to children living near to the School. Some schools have most of the places for catchment area (Nonsuch, Wallington etc.).
This year, Reading grammars (Kendrik & Reading) and Chelmsford grammars (both boys & girls) have changed their over-subscription criteria from 100% open selection to 100% catchment and 80% catchment respectively.
It is high time that children from Kingston and surrounding areas also get level playing field. Until all grammar schools are 100% open selection, it is fair that some priority is restored for these children.
We have therefore proposed that Tiffins give 80% places on the basis of proximity to the Schools (or such other Centre point in the Borough, as previously proposed by the LA) to those children who pass the entrance tests. Other 20% may be given on open selection.
This proposal complies with Greenwich/Rotherham rulings. We are aware that it would take lot of persuation for the Governors of these school to accept this proposal. We call upon all parents from Kingston & Surrounding areas t write to the Tiffin Schools in support of this proposal and copy these to your local MPs and Councillors.
Dear readers. Someone earlier reported that Tiffin had not followed a high court ruling and that it took them, ie the person posting, ages to get the LA or someone to reveal the case. I think it was either Tiffinboys or prh47bridge, apologies if it was neither and I have wrongly attributed the author, however I was wondering whether the case was the Greenwich/Rotheram case or another case altogether. If another case could I have the name and if possible the citation please? Many thanks if you can assist!
Yes - that's exactly right and all now confirmed. Their admission arrangements for 2015 are:
a)All test scores will be standardised and aggregated by GL Assessment.
b) A minimum qualifying score will be set.
c) Children of selective ability (i.e. who have met the minimum qualifying score) with a Statement of Special Educational Needs that names Tiffin School will be allocated a place before other applicants are considered. In this way, the number of places to be offered, as set out above, will be reduced by the number of children with a statement that names Tiffin School.
d) Children of selective ability (i.e. who have met the minimum qualifying score) who are currently looked after children or previously looked after children (see appendix B) will be allocated a place.
e) Those who qualify and live within the priority area (see 1.2) will be ranked by score.
f) Places will be offered in rank order until 180 places are filled.
g) In the event of a tied score to fill the 180th place, a place will be offered in order of proximity to the school (see 1.2).
h) If there are fewer than 180 applicants who qualify and live within the priority area, then those outside the priority area who meet the qualifying score will be ranked, and will be offered a place in rank order until the 180 places are filled.
i) In the event of a tied score to fill the 180th place, from outside the priority area, a place will be offered in order of proximity to the school (see 1.2).
1.2 Priority Area
All applicants who live less than 14km from Tiffin School, measured as a straight line, live in the Priority Area.
Thanks Tiggy. Word in the playground says that next year the PAN will be 180 and they are introducing either a 14 k or 15 k exclusion zone. This interesting as the Admissions code says they can ask parents for 'voluntary contributions'.
No. The second test for all-comers was a one-off.
All schools have a second date for people who were sick or people for whom religious observance is an issue but that year Tiffins also had a one-off late test due to the parental outcry at a sudden change in the timetable.
Tiffins used to test later than all other schools but the 2012 Admission Code said they should test early to get results out by October. So they changed the test date but also changed the registration date to July which meant some people missed out and were very angry - threats of legal action etc.
Now it is the established norm that all tests are taken in the first term of Year 6 so nobody misses out anymore and there is only a late test for illness again.
Do you know when the second test date was? And did they do one this year? Thank you.
Thank you very much prh47bridge. Very helpful. Sorry about the late reply. Still grateful though!
This was dealt with at the time by Tiffins allowing a second test date in the face of legal action by parents.
The argument was that the very early date for registration (in July) meant some people missed it altogether. That does not happen anymore. It was a problem at the time because Tiffins was responding to the Admission Code changes that asked grammar schools to move their test dates forward. Tiffins was one of the schools that used to hold the test long after the CAF had been submitted so all of this was a big surprise to some.
All grammar schools are more uniform in their testing now offering early tests with initial results known by October 31st. They all offer late tests for good reasons eg illness. Parents all know the dates now so there haven't been cases of surprise date changes and people missing out.
Paragraph 2.21 of the Admissions Code says, "Any parent can apply for a place for their child at any time to any school outside the normal admissions round." Paragraph 2.14 says, "Any parent can apply for a place for their child at any time to any school outside the normal admissions round."
Since Tiffin uses test scores to rank pupils, failing to test applicants who apply outside the normal admissions round would have the effect of placing them at the back of the waiting list and would therefore, in my view, be in breach of paragraph 2.14.
Also 31st October is the closing date for applications to secondary schools. Admission authorities cannot impose a different closing date. If they refuse to test anyone who applies after the deadline for registering for entrance tests Tiffin is, in my view, effectively setting an earlier closing date. Anyone who applies after this date has no chance of getting a place.
If Tiffin is refusing to test any child applying after their deadline for registering for entrance tests I would refer the matter to the Schools Adjudicator.
The Admissions Code can be found here.
Dear prh. I note on ground three you state 'they may not refuse entry..just because they missed the test'. Could you provide an authority for this please. I.e. tell me where this comes from e.g. What statute, ruling, guideline etc? Many thanks. Dear prh, where do I find the Admissions Code you refer to.
Dear prh. I note on ground three you state 'they may not refuse entry..just because they missed the test'. Could you provide an authority for this please. I.e. tell me where this comes from e.g. What statute, ruling, guideline etc? Many thanks.
Ask locals for their opinion on Tiffin School Admissions by joining the conversation over on our Mumsnet Local Kingston Upon Thames site
Find other Local sites here: local.mumsnet.com/find-a-local-site
I have a girl at Tiffin Girls', it is a good school in many ways but not perfect by any means. I don't think it is worth more effort than a 45 min journey.
I think the hysteria generated by specialist websites and tutoring has encouraged applications from far afield. I don't blame individual parents or girls though. It is sold as a golden ticket to a great university and career later on. Every parent wants the best for their daughter or son. In retrospect I think any school with good teaching and streaming is adequate for the able child.
I would urge prospective parents to look at good comps as well as Tiffin Girls. I think the constant pressure applied to the girls is unbearable for many and the school generally places results higher than pastoral care. The school is also extremely strict and seems to lack trust in the girls. This gets worse as the girls progress through the school.
There is a fair amount of unpleasantness and one-upmanship among the girls but that is probably the case at many schools. I think a lot of competitive behaviour comes from parents.
Most girls are friendly and behaviour good on the whole. I suppose everything is a trade off - fantastic opportunities, trips and all the rest if, it but work work work for the bloody A*s.
I have a boy at tbs and I do not agree with catchment consideration as I feel it would lower the standard of student calibre. All boys have an equal chance with undertaking the entrance exam and if they don't get in then that's unfortunate.
New to this site....but I have one at tbs and I do not agree with catchment areas for grammar schools. Every one has equal chance of passing the entrance exam and if they are unsuccessful then that's just the way it goes. Catchment consideration I feel would lower the calibre of students in the school.
@JustAnotherUserName. ditto what tiffinboys said; our eldest didn't finish the test, missed some questions - got in; sibling finished the lot - checked them over, etc, and didn't - so you never know. Your child has done well simply in taking the test - it is a challenge for boys at such an age, be proud & give lots of praise - whatever the result.
You never know. Hope that your child has done well. Usually those who find it easy, often miss out. Such is the nature of these tests.
I was there today. Not local. DS didn't seem to do well so place freed up for a local boy!
Ha ha Tiffin you got me there on the local school... I hope everyone does well...If you dont get in hope you have better luck elsewhere...
If your local....what can I say two thumbs up....but if you don't get in..Its not the end if the world...
Join the campaign, dudbridge.
Pls write to both the Schools to consider ability/distance criteria. Approved even by the High Court in its 1992 Judicial Review judgement for TGS, so compliant with Greenwich judgement as well.
Sat in my office at home watching all the kids going to Tiffin girls to take exams. Can't get off my drive for ignorant people parking all over the place. Taking pupils from so far away means that buses are full from 3 -4:30pm. we have to have a new secondary school in the same road thus increasing traffic when places are taken by out of borough pupils. This is a disgrace. Local schools for local children
By the way, Good Luck to all the children taking the tests today. My special wishes for the local children.
But I would agree with Kenlee, not to stereo type any one.
Kenlee, as you posted before, you were at your local school. Not 15 miles away in London traffic.
In some areas 10 miles is do able in 20 minutes. In our area, some times 3 miles take 40 minutes.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.